ST or ST Turbo for Outfitter

I'm considering larger fins for my Outfitter and asked my local dealer to recommend either the ST or the ST Turbo.

He said that the Turbo isn't a good choice for the Outfitter, that it's only for faster, sleeker kayaks like the Adventure.

Has anybody tried either of these fins on an Outfitter?

Your dealer is misinformed. I have two Outfitters. My wife and I both use the ST Turbo fins and would never think of going back to the original fins or the ST. I did go with the ST on the other two drives and the kids (9 and 11) use them though the older boy still prefers the ST Turbo. The Turbo also works very well solo or with the dog up front. You can peddle slower to maintain the same speed and can go faster when pedaling hard versus either of the other fins. They also increased our cruising range.

Peter

Sonora, welcome to the forum. I can see where the dealer is coming from, but plfinch makes some very good points with his excellent first hand experience.

The Outfitter is not a fast cruiser and oddly, can be slower in the tandem mode than solo. For instance, I can travel 4.7 miles in an hour, solo with ballast (GPS, no tide or current, two directions), whereas, my wife and I can only do about 4.4 miles in one hour together (same route) -- the heavier bow wastes significant energy as it plows a lot of water. In that situation, the extra potential power of the Turbos becomes virtually wasted once the boat "hits the wall" with two people. You can go almost as fast with considerably less power! When operating solo, on the other hand. the extra torque available with Turbos produces good results.

The Oasis is another boat that is hull speed-limited. A friend and I managed to sprint 6.8 MPH with two sets of Turbos; the wife and I can get the same speed with one set of Turbos and one set of STs. As a comparison, we can move the Oasis about 5.0 miles in a one hour cruise, tandem or solo (same route, same fins).

ST's are an excellent fin -- They're almost as easy to operate as standard fins, yet (unlike the standard fins) they can produce almost as much speed as Turbos (but at a higher cadence). Additionally, they cost less and are a no brainer to install.

I'm a big fan of Turbofins, with their slower cadence and quicker acceleration (they also work better as a centerboard when sailing), but have a lot of respect for the STs as well. If you're running strictly tandem with the Outfitter, I think the STs would give you virtually the same benefit as Turbos. It depends a lot on personal choice.

Thanks, guys- I appreciate your responses; you both have good perspectives. Here's what I think (at this minute, anyway ) I'll do:

As roadrunner pointed out, the ST fins are cheaper and easier to install. I'll be using the kayak tandem, with my wife, almost exclusively. So, I think that I'll get the ST set and use them for awhile. I'll also switch off with my wife, to see if she likes them. If we both like them, I could always get a second set. Or, if I still think that I want the Turbos, I'll give her the STs and get Turbos for myself. Either way, we'll probably get use out of them. (Besides, they're not expensive, anyway.)


Next project will be the sailing rudder and a boombat (I like roadrunner's modification!) The few times we used the sail were pretty frustrating. For one thing, I'm not a sailor and don't know yet what I'm doing.

But, also, in a good wind, I find that the stock rudder is almost useless. And, without a boombat the sail is really difficult to manage.

thanks,

Sonora (Steven)

I called my local dealer and spoke to somebody who does seem to know what he's talking about. I'm sure that the first guy did also, but they had different opinons.

This guy said to get the Turbo fins. I think that they're what I wanted all along, regardless.

So, I ordered the Turbo fins and the sailing rudder.

Next, the cushion seat and a boombat.

And, if things go well, tomorrow we'll take out the kayak and maybe by next weekend I'll have the new Turbos and rudder.

The turbos are great. You won't be disappointed. However, for the benefit of others who may read this thread looking for enlightenement, here's my attempt at a canonical list of reasons why anyone might NOT want the turbos:

1) If you have extremely poor leg muscle tone.

2) If you have really strong leg muscles and testosterone poisoning (or are likely to loan your 'yak to someone who does). The Turbo offers enough resistance to place a good deal more strain on the drive.

3) If you have no desire now or ever to go more than about 3.5mph for extended periods. You can do this with the standard fins, but it requires a higher cadence than many (including me) find comfortable.

4) If you operate in very shallow water much of the time. The Turbo fins are longer and are more likely to hit bottom. When they do, the longer mast puts more leverage on the drive, increasing the risk of damage.

5) Specialized tools such as an allen wrench make you break out in cold sweats AND you have no mechanically savvy friends to help with installation.

6) You are living so close to the edge that he increased cost makes the difference between financial security and a life of poverty.

That's the list as I see it. If none of these apply to you, buy the turbos.

Installation is a snap. The difference in cadence for the same speed is quite dramatic at all speeds. Comfortable cruising speed is noticeably faster. They even look cool - hydro-bling at its finest.

My biggest criticism is that Hobie should offer them as an option at purchase time rather than making you buy the standard fins with the 'yak and then buy the turbos. Anyone want a set of barely used standard fins and masts?

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2x Revo
17' Grumman Ultralight

Hi, rx7-

great list! Should be a sticky.

I got a call from the kayak store and I'll be able to pick up the Turbos and the sailing rudder on Saturday. I may get to try them out this weekend but, if not, next weekend.

Do you have an rx-7 ? I have an rx-8.

Hope it helps. My goal in any forum is to create something of enough utility that it becomes a sticky. Not what I was trying for here, but thanks for the kind words.



My non-kayaking obsession. A near mint 1994 twin turbo.

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2x Revo
17' Grumman Ultralight

The gr8est Mazda ever looks good

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Fastfish/Geoff
Kayaks Owned>Outback/Mine & Revolution/Wife