sidekick wellnuts

I have seen over and over those that have had wellnuts pop out and some who never had the problem. I (before reading the forums) used the wellnut attachment behind the seat of my revo and made sure they were good & tight. I just noticed two look to be starting a pullout.

Before I go through the hassle of the blind nut & fender washer, rubber washer and nylon spacer attachment with major reach problem requiring two people, one with very long arms, I want to ask this of the Hobie admins.

I found a local hardware store that believe it or not carries a wide assortment of wellnuts. I found 10/32 x 1-1/2" long wellnuts. Will the longer wellnuts provide better grip and less chance of a pop-out? It would appear they would since you have far more spread than the length that came with the kit? They are same diameter of 3/8" so no need to make a larger hole or try to fill in the old one? This of course would be a faster and easier replacement.

I would appreciate your input. THX

_________________
I would rather be kayaking and think about work than to be at work thinking about kayaking.
A Thrill Ride is being dragged around in your kayak for 40 minutes by an extremely large fish.

I made a reply in a previous post about this.
I have a Revo and installed sikekicks. I never used the well nuts but used a washer & lock nut. I was able to reach using a 1/4" drive ratchet with socket. Put the nut in the socket and something sticky (caulk) to hold the washer and turned the screw from the top. Got all 4 on the first try.

I know that is not what you asked for but you might want to try it. Then you don't have to worry.

Bruce

_________________
Everything before 60 is just a rehearsal!

Starbrite makes a product called "supergrip"--it is like museum putty and is excellent for starting nuts or holding items in place until you bolt them.

I was surprised that the small pad eye on the bow (pickup handles) of my Revolution did not have back up washers. I put on 2" x 2.5" fold down pad eyes, with a complete back up plate-far stronger. I would want washers on any item which had a load on it...such as the amas.

_________________
Bob Austin
Pensacola, FL

I would suggest you forget the well nuts unless you want to replace them all over when they pull out again.

Bite the bullet and do the through bolt method with stainless nuts screws and washers. You wont regret it and the mount will not ever let you down.

I would rather see Hobie just put some threaded inserts into the hull for use with a sidekick kit or various other add on items.

These inserts could be molded into the kayak during manufacturing very similar to the brass inserts in the new sprockets except they would be in various locations around the hull instead.

The inserts could then be plugged with a nylon socket set screw when not being used.

Once a mount was required for an aftermarket item one could just take the nylon set screw out and fasten the accessory item down using the appropriate length and diameter screw.

These inserts could then be used to mount a variety of accessory items to the hull such as side kicks , dodgers, pole holders, rocket launchers, storage boxes, live wells, gps electronic units fishfinders etc etc.

Just an idea
Have Fun out there
Kepnutz

Now that's just funny. I am thinking about trying to replace my wellnuts with the nylon backboard, stainless bolts, washers, and lock nuts, but the reach issue is one I am familiar with. I am thinking since I have already cut out the holes for wellnuts, that I will use the wellnut, shaved off, and minus the nut when it comes time to use the stainless bolts and such. It should provide a good seal when I tighten everything down. I just figured I would post that as all is not lost when you have already drilled the larger wellnut sized holes.

Now I just need some spare time, and the brother of that gal with the longest legs. Or that really small guy would work. He could probably crawl up inside and hold the wrench for me.

_________________
Isaac

Thanks for the replies I am sure I have read each every one of your posts on the subject and replies. I have become an avid reader of the forum and all the neat adaptations and ingenuity of the members.

I have all the hardware for a thru bolt replacement. I am 6'2" and long armed. I can touch the rear bolt from rear hatch and foward bolt from center hatch so I can probably reach easily with a ratchet. I am buried to my shoulder in the hatch so not sure if can see the the nut to line up screw. I am attempting it tomorrow and if not will call a neighbor to help.

My reasoning in asking about the wellnuts is this ... a 2" long spreadable wall anchor gives you alot more holding power and less pullout than a 1" long anchor so I would assume the same holds true in a wellnut. It is a lot harder to pull an 1-1/2" diameter of compressed rubber through a 3/8" hole than a 3/4" diameter. 4 times surface area as opposed to 2.

Just a curiosity question since the wellnuts provided with the AMAs are clearly inadequate and not all people think to look into a forum before making the mistake of installing with them and end up with a 3/8" hole that now requires an infill spacer instead of just a 3/16" hole needed for the screw.

Hobie needs to change the mounting hardware provided with the Sidekicks. By the way I love the revolution and the AMAs.

_________________
I would rather be kayaking and think about work than to be at work thinking about kayaking.
A Thrill Ride is being dragged around in your kayak for 40 minutes by an extremely large fish.

Hobie changing the mounting hardware is subjective. I am using wellnuts right now, and have replaced all of them, but that could be dabated that I had tightened them too tight, and or used the crossbar to lift the kayak, thereby causing my own problems. Luckily the local hardware store has the same wellnuts you are talking about, and they drop right into place and so far are holding up well (pardon the pun). I am guessing that Hobie provides wellnuts because it's the best solution for the location they assume most people will mount the ama's. They are a great solution in my opinion, I got the sidekicks mounted in a matter of minutes. I just need to stop using it as a handle, and to that end, I have installed a handle on the side right next to the sidekicks so I will grab for that instead. I am thinking that a couple of pairs of wellnuts a season is not to bad of a price. Sure, stainless bolts and backing hardware would be a more permanent worry free (use it as a handle) solution, but for now to get me on the lake, wellnuts it is.

_________________
Isaac

[quote=" I just need to stop using it as a handle, and to that end, I have installed a handle on the side right next to the sidekicks so I will grab for that instead. I am thinking that a couple of pairs of wellnuts a season is not to bad of a price. [/quote]

If you think using the sidekick bar as a handle is pulling the well nuts out, I would think again. The stress the sidekicks put on the bar has to be equal or greater than lifting as the sidekicks hit the water and bounce. I wouldn't want to depend on the sidekicks and have the bar let go. It will never happen at a good time or place.

Putting screws , washers & nut on the bar clamps is not that hard.

See my post above.

Bruce

_________________
Everything before 60 is just a rehearsal!

Hey Ya'll
If you still just want a simple blind side application that would really work great you might try using these "Jack Nuts" as they should hold much better than well nuts.

The ultimate tensile strength of one #10 Jack Nut in 3/16" sheet is 640 lbs whereas a #10 well nut in 3/8"" thick sheet is still only 260lbs.
In other words the rubber well nut has less than half the holding strength of Jack Nuts even in material that is twice as thick !!

The #10 Jack nut can use the same 3/8 dia hole as the # 10 well nuts that come with the sidekick kit and yet the load is spread out on the back side of the hull base material much wider than with well nuts so pullout should not be an issue even if lifting with the sidekick cross bar.






JACK-NUTS ® are an economical Threaded Insert designed for use in thin, soft or brittle materials.
During installation the body collapses on the back side to form legs which grip the inside of the mounting surface.

Fastens in blind holes
Won't distort soft plastics
Not hole diameter sensitive
Can be installed in uneven materials
One-step installation with manual or pnuematic tools

Take it easy
Kepnutz

Hey Kep,

I love this forum it really gets people thinking and true ingenuity prevails.
The Jack Nut looks like a stronger alternative to the wellnut. I do not think they are available locally but can always order via the web.

My original quest was for an anchor of that sort but could only find hollow wall anchors which were of course for thicker material. My search had not rewarded me with the jack nuts.

idavis .. I saw a post where someone put a grip handle behind the seat
which is a great location (one I am contemplating) a grip on the handle and a hand thru the mirage well makes for a balanced tote. Since the sidekick bar is there one tends to reach for it as a handle. I am guilty .. guilty .. guilty.
The molded handles are awkward and unbalanced especially taking down from an 08 Xterra which is even a reach for me at 6'2".

I agree with BNelsonR .. whatever the mount the stresses of sailing in waves and even just hiked up on one ama in a blustery wind is more than lifting the back end of the revolution.

I did not get to it today but will install the nuts & washers hopefully tomorrow since I have them, but Kepnutz kudos on the jack nuts.

THX to all who have replied.

_________________
I would rather be kayaking and think about work than to be at work thinking about kayaking.
A Thrill Ride is being dragged around in your kayak for 40 minutes by an extremely large fish.

Thanks for the Props Revo

Just glad to help out here and there when and if I can..what comes round goes round.
If some folks could just try those Jack-Nuts then maybe there would be "No Worries Chicken Curry"

It seems nobody has time to do things right but everybody has time to do it over I guess
Like you I'll stick to my screws nuts and washers for now.

Have a Good One
Kepnutz

Kep those jack nuts are a new one to me, do they come in non rust material (aluminium,stainless) and where did you sourse them? on a mounting application where access to the underside is an issue I have had success with aircraft rivets, but had to go to KFS or Hook 1 to get them.

fair winds John

Hi Ya Makenmend
I believe either brass and/or coated steel are available.

" Available in steel, brass and steel with PVC or Raintite coating. "

You could "Giggle It" and do a search to find them online.
The manufacturer should be able to point you to a distributor in your local region as well.

Ok wait.. here ya go... I found this is a link to Napa Auto Parts online
One package of 4 each 1/4-20 thread Jack Nuts for $4.99 plus shipping.
Wow thats expensive...

http://www.napaonline.com/MasterPages/N ... +Well+Nuts

Ok heres another brand called Marson Klik Poly Nut which is a similar product and they have them available in aluminum if you like.
You can do a search online for these as well.

http://www.acerivet.com/klik_poly_nuts.html


Have Fun
Kepnutz

Welllllll .... to much disappointment could not get the sidekick brackets through bolted. Two people over an hour and a half with no success. BTW we both have long reach. The mounting position I chose really is a ba** buster.
I have the crossbar about 1/2 aft of the tip of the rudder up/down lever in the up position. I chose to minimize the intrusion of the crossbar into the well but that puts the crossbar at midpoint between the center hatch and the rear hatch. The blind reach got the best of both of us especially the starboard side with the rudder up/down lever. Dropped nuts & washers more times than can count and even with them stuck together and taped to the ratchet. We eventually just gave up, not without trying all sorts of methods.
Just awkward trying to get around rod holders, cables, levers and under seat or well. Amazing all the words that should not be in the same sentence but get there.

Result: I went back to wellnuts but chose the 10/32 x 1-1/2" wellnut with a 3" 10/32 stainless screw. I can tell you the difference in the feel in tightening was dramatic opposed to the 1" length. I hope they prove to be stronger, they FEEL it! Much more resistance in tightening down. I am looking into the Jack Nut also, till I find those will not be without the sidekick.

Found this page on the POP Jack Nut:
http://www.thread-rite.com/pop_nuts/jac ... lation.htm

_________________
I would rather be kayaking and think about work than to be at work thinking about kayaking.
A Thrill Ride is being dragged around in your kayak for 40 minutes by an extremely large fish.

Jack Nut search results:

Jack Nuts are economical blind fasteners designed for use in thin, soft, or brittle materials. When tightened, the body collapses to form legs which grip the inside of the mounting surface, leaving a permanent, reusable threaded insert.

I found them in quantity only (100 per box) at around $30 USD. You also need buy either the install tool at $40 USD or the wrench which I have not found a price on. They are available in brass but also in quantity and special order (you have to call for price/quantity). This makes for a pricey alternative.

These are not intended to be removable. See previous post for web address with more info on Jack Nuts.

_________________
I would rather be kayaking and think about work than to be at work thinking about kayaking.
A Thrill Ride is being dragged around in your kayak for 40 minutes by an extremely large fish.