Sailing Rudder Installation

I am trying to install sailing rudders on '09 Outback and Revolution.

One of the 6 screws seems to be covered by the rudder mechanism. Can anyone point me to instructions on how to do this rudder swap? I'm not sure I want to just start disassembling the rudder mechanism all willy nilly, especially since the adjustments current seem to be spot on.

Much thanks.

Figured it out. Raise the rudder.

I'm a retard.

Well, maybe I'm retarded as well. I too just purchased a sail rudder for my outback thinking I could quickly switch the thing out with the standard rudder depending on if I'm sailing or doing more shallow water yaking. What surprised me was just how hard it is to get the 6 little bolts off that hold the original rudder. For one, the factory bolted bolts are very tight. Second, they are inset into the plastic ...so it is hard to get a grab on the bolts. At first I thought these insets were great since the design suggested that I didn't need pliers to hold the bolts, just a screw driver. But once the bolt was loosened just a little bit, the plastic inset fails to hold the bolt still ...yet it interferes with any tool that tries to grab a hold of the bolt.

I need a work-a-round so I can switch out these rudders quicker and easier. One thought: I may put the factory bolts on backwards so there is more exposed surface to grab on to keep them from rotating. Am also toying with the thought of wing nuts. Any suggestions out there?

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Absolute kayaking corrupts absolutely.

There is absolutely no reason to keep switching rudders!! The nuts will wear out eventually and start falling off just from vibration. The sailing rudder is much better in all situations and Hobie would benefit all of us by providing it as the standard rudder (as well as the ST turbo fins etc of the performance package). I could think of no logical reason anyone would opt for the less optimal performing smaller counterparts. I have yet to find anyone who would go back to the smaller versions once they have experienced the performance models.

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Fishing, freediving and SCUBA diving off my Revolution when not just pedaling or sailing

What I did was reinsert the screws and gave them a little tap with the screwdriver handle to pop the nuts out. I tapped the nuts into the new rudder and used blue locktite when I installed them.

I agree I see no need to go back to the original rudder. I spent 4 hours on the water yesterday and was amazed by the difference. The rudder was especially helpful in holding position while we sat there watching a little kid try to ski for the first time. With no pedaling I was able to hold position in the wind using just the rudder.

As for the ST Turbos, I so outpaced my Wife in her Revolution she is now demanding ST fins. Apparently Hobie got me into some mutual escalation upgrade path.

I agree with you to a point. The prob is that the sail rudder is 2-3 inches deeper in the water. On a lake that's no problem, but in Nebraska I am often in 8 inch deep water due to sandbars. I also have snags and tree stumps to paddle over (I am often paddling with a group of conventional kayakers who can get into 6" water without problems while I'm the first to "ground-out"). In these situations my rudder is often forced-up as it hits an unexpected object. That's why I regularly uncinch my rudder when in shallow waters.

I fear the sailing rudder will exasperate the shallow water problem. I could be wrong. Perhaps I could simply let the sailing rudder ride up just as the standard rudder does.

Is there anyone out there who regularly does shallow water with the sail rudder? What's your experience?

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Absolute kayaking corrupts absolutely.

I bought a 09 Outback for my son last week and changed to the sailing rudder today, no problems except one of the screws was broken, seems it might have been overtightened and the installer just left it as it was.

Thomas, you can shorten the big rudder if you need to and still get excellent performance. IMO, the big rudder is larger than it needs to be for all applications except AI sailing and boat wake rides.

I always use the large rudder, but don't hesitate to modify it for different applications. Here are a few, all of which work well for virtually all uses (except the one on the exteme left doesn't have enough authority for sailing):


Here's the drawing for another I made that you can see removed half the difference in height -- outstanding rudder! (note this was made from the old version of the large rudder, not the current model so the result is slightly different).


The sailing rudder has 90 sq. in., almost twice the 46 sq. in. of the standard rudder. Cropping 2 inches of your large rudder only removes about 5 sq. in. I think this would still give you excellent performance -- you probably wouldn't be able to tell the difference. By comparison, the one in the drawing here has about 66 sq. in. Of course, how the area is distributed is rather important.

In any event, I recommend you take your original standard rudder somewhere far away from your boat and leave it there!

Ha! Roadrunner, you and a couple others on this board are geniuses. Thanks for sharing the rudder possibilities.

I took my new sailing rudder out for a spin. I did not sail today, just peddled. Here's what I found...

The Good (no, no! the great!!!):
1. Control was excellent. Even at slow speeds I could turn my ship (an '09 Outback with the long Turbo fins) accurately without any momentary drift when coming out of a hard turn. The turning radius didn't not appear to be any different, but set the rudder straight and the boat immediately straightened. I took aim at several power poles on shore and each time I could nail the heading. It almost felt digital.

Authority was so strong that at first I was startled when I first entering a hard turn at a fast speed. The boat actually tipped, or leaned, into the turn for a moment!

The Bad:
1. The huge rudder had a hard time being put down once it was up. "Down" didn't work at all at first, but later in the session it behaved better. Not sure why the change. There is a chance that my rudder cables are a bit out of rig.

2. The standard rudder was short enough to "clip" under the rear bungee webbing. The cord served to hold the rudder safely to the deck even if the rear of the yak entered the water at a great angle. Once in the water, a quick turn freed the rudder, then a pull on the down cable brought her down. Simple, safe and neat.

The sailing rudder, on the other hand, is too large to tuck under the cord and yet automatically free itself with a turn before lowering. Without that convenient "cord tuck" this huge rudder wanted to drop prematurely as I lowered the rear of the yak over the shore bank and into the water. In this case, with a bank only maybe 9" above the water, I had to be extra careful not to allow the rudder to drop as I slid the yak into the water. I fear that someday this uncommanded rudder drop will stress or break the rudder as it scrapes the lakeshore bottom.

However I may be able to arrange a different "cord tuck" by adding a diagonal bungee without mounting additional hardware. This simple mod might solve the problem. We'll see.

The Ugly (for shallow water users):
1. With the standard rudder I could cinch the rudder down minimally. That kept the rudder down yet allowed the cable some stretch buffer in case I hit something underwater that forced the rudder up. But the new rudder is so huge that at fast speeds it wants to come up ...unless it is fully cinched as tight as possible. With the rudder cable already stretched to its limits when fully cinched, I fear something will break the next time I hit something underwater.

I am not sure what to do about this. Perhaps the only thing I can do (and this is a half measure) is clip the bottom of the rudder as Roadrunner did so I'll have a bit less of a chance of fitting something underwater. This is a huge bummer for me unless Hobie has some kind of extra spring tension under the deck I don't know about that helps a taught cable to give a bit more in a collision.

Thomas

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Absolute kayaking corrupts absolutely.

Took the yak out again yesterday to test that new sailing rudder. I also tried that diagonal bungee idea (see the blue cord). Indeed, on the Outback it solves the loose rudder problem...

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=3 ... 1005263123

This photo shows the sail rudder secured by the Outback's rear bungee for transportation purposes. But before entering a lake the rear bungee is removed and placed under the rudder. Now only the blue colored bungee holds the rudder in place. Once on the water, a simple rudder tiller turn to the right frees the rudder. Then you pull the Down cord.

Incidentally, the bundled black strap at the bottom is a dog leash with a clip loop on the other end. I have one on the bow and stern. It is bundled in such a way that if I were to dump into the water I could free this strap with a quick tug while in the water. Then I can swim to shore with the boat in tow. The stern strap is also useful for towing other boats in trouble. The clip loop makes it easy to secure to another boat.

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Absolute kayaking corrupts absolutely.

Thomas, I'm not sure what the purpose of the blue bungee is. My rudder just rests on the deck until it is flipped down for deployment. As far as I know, the rudder only needs to be secured for transport.

That's curious. My rudder is loose when up and can swing across and drop on its own as the kayak hull is moving (as when putting in to a lake). Do I have a rigging problem here?

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Absolute kayaking corrupts absolutely.

Maybe it depends on the method of launch. I wheel the boat into the water, insert the Drive, pop the wheels, release the rudder bungee, hop in, then deploy the rudder. Yes, the rudder is sitting on the deck "loose" but it doesn't go anywhere until deployed. Perhaps you're launch method incorporates tilting the boat after releasing the rudder bungee that might cause the rudder to flop around?

I remove the wheels before entering the water. The wheels would sink in the mud if they remained on till the boat floated.

Yep, the boat is tilted, stern down, as it enters and exits the water. The boat "bumps" a few times as well as it is slid into the water. There are few beaches here in Nebraska, but lots of 1-foot, and sometimes 2-foot high banks. I'd remove the rudder from the standard bungees after planting the boat in the water if I knew I'd remember to release the rudder BEFORE I sat in the boat and started paddling off! Plus, when the water is colder, it pays to spend less time in the water, so the automatic release of the captured rudder is an important feature for me that this diagonal bungee does well enough.

To be sure, does your rudder stay in place on the deck at such angles and with the boat bumping around some? As I mentioned before, I'm beginning to wonder if my rudder is rigged right.

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Absolute kayaking corrupts absolutely.

Under the circumstances it sounds like you're rudder is behaving as it should. Use of the supplemental bungee is an excellent adaptation!