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PostPosted: Thu Sep 24, 2015 1:14 pm 
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Is there a retrofit kit for attaching the new 2016 Vantage Seat Retention Buckles to the 2015 models, and if so, how do we purchase it and what does it cost? I just purchased a new demo 2015 Oasis, and would like the security of the new buckles vs. the existing clips that don't stay attached well at all. Thanks!

**UPDATE** - Just wanted to update this to reflect that I have received my updated 2016 Seat Retention Buckles, and they installed quickly and easily. I haven't had a chance to try them in the real world yet, but they definitely are more secure than the old snap buckles that originally came on my 2015 Oasis. Thanks so much for the great update Hobie! :)


Last edited by dfrntsuthernguy on Mon Oct 26, 2015 7:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 24, 2015 3:08 pm 
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84507822 – VANTAGE CT SEAT CLIP UPGRADE
available from any Hobie Kayak dealer directly (no charge) find a dealer here: http://www.hobiecat.com/dealers/

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 24, 2015 3:40 pm 
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Thanks Jacques! I called the dealer where I purchased my Hobie, and they weren't even aware of this kit yet, but said they would check with their Hobie Rep. and be back in touch.
~Anthony
PS - Any info for me on this seat issue?
viewtopic.php?f=11&t=56090


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 25, 2015 8:24 am 
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Wish I had known this earlier... I rented out a Revo 13 last weekend and the customer flipped and lost the drive and seat! Apparently he had been in shallow water so he pulled the drive. He got to deeper water and it was quite windy. As he was fumbling around, he fell out and flipped the kayak. Now I am out a seat and drive. I have my dealer checking on replacements, hoping Hobie will give me a price break under the circumstances. I will be getting the retrofit buckles in any case!

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 25, 2015 8:52 am 
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Fyi... this was announced to dealers on 9/1/2015.

While this is an improvement in connection reliability and common sense understanding of how to connect them... you still have to hook them together, so may not have changed your situation. Talk to your dealer about possible price break consideration for replacements.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2015 4:57 pm 
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Well, my dealer is giving me a little break on price but said Hobie isn't helping. Retail price is $609 for a GT Turbo drive and $469 for a seat!!! No wonder they don't publish the seat price! I expected some help from Hobie since they have realized the 2015 seat clip is lacking and are offering a retrofit buckle kit. If only they had posted the bulletin about the retro kit on here instead of just sending it to dealers. Does Hobie expect dealers to contact all their customers to let them know about stuff like this? This is very frustrating to me and seems to be easily resolved by creating a bulletin section online that customers could access to find out about recalls, retro kits, etc.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2015 7:34 am 
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'This is very frustrating to me and seems to be easily resolved by creating a bulletin section online that customers could access to find out about recalls, retro kits, etc.'

I totally agree. If you/we make a mod on our Hobie and post in on this site than it is up to the readers if they want to do the same to their Hobie. However if a modification, 'fault' or recall is found by Hobie then it should be posted by Hobie in a bulletin section created in the Board index and cover all Hobie products including accessories and not be left to hearsay or Chinese whispers from other Hobie owners, and in some cases Hobie dealers to find out about. An example I have had of this is buying a Mirage drive spine, no one knew that Hobie had a new type out, not even the dealer and I found out by accident, not on this site as I feel that I should have. I also live in a country town 400 km from the nearest dealer which makes matters worse as thing need to be done by phone etc.

I don't think that the auto manufacturers would fare very well if they didn't publish in the media, contact dealers and then owners regarding recalls on vehicles be it safety related or not.

Sometimes it appears that Hobie are trying to 'hide' the information in case too many owners would react. I feel it would give owners more confidence in the product, just look at the praise given when Hobie comes to the assistance of some owners with their problems, it makes them feel valued and proud of owning a Hobie over another make. If the information is provided then it is up to the owner to react or not.

It would be nice to be able to nip some things in the bud before they become a problem and the only way this can be done is by free information and lets face it we are passing on our information to Hobie (and other owners) of problems we find and in many cases cures. Forewarned is forearmed.

Now where am I going to put this soap box for safe keeping?

zarbs


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2015 8:49 am 
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While Hobie Cat feels badly for consumers who fail to operate the product as we instruct... we can not be responsible for every failure to do so and every unusual situation that causes equipment damage or loss.

Lots of comments (over the last year) have been made in these forums about secondary leashes and ways to be sure that the older seat clip is attached correctly. Lots of information about being sure drives are secured. This is not new information.

As far as notifying consumers about these sorts of issues, typically we post technical issues here after notifying dealers. We sometime have to delay a bit until parts are available. First mention of a kit part number here was September 16th.

This item is only a change in function. If you fail to buckle the new strap, you are in the same position as you were if you failed to hook the old one properly.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 01, 2015 7:21 am 
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Good news! It was a super low tide yesterday so I gave it one more shot trying to locate the lost drive and seat. Had to walk about 500 yards through the mud, but there they were, high and dry, covered in mud! Woohoo!!!

Now I only hope I can cancel the order for $1100 worth of parts that I don't need!

Matt, yes, sometimes issues are posted here, but ONLY after mentioned by us, the customers. Not to mention, the information is sometimes buried in an old post. Please, please consider establishing a section dedicated to warranty, recall, safety notices for us to review.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 01, 2015 9:50 am 
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masonborowatersports wrote:
Please, please consider establishing a section dedicated to warranty, recall, safety notices for us to review.


Dealer notices are on our dealer website of course... There are plans to add functionality for consumer level. I'm not going to recreate the process here, so have to wait for IT to get to that.

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Hobie Cat USA
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 01, 2015 1:40 pm 
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Wow, that's great news Matt! Thanks!

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 01, 2015 5:55 pm 
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Thanks Matt

zarbs


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 02, 2015 10:24 pm 
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It's important to distinguish between product improvement and defective product. Hobie makes running improvements all the time. Whereas we'd all like to know about them ASAP, there are a couple of problems this creates.
1. Dealers need advanced notice to clear old inventory and order new parts / get training so they can actually have the new product available when the customer comes in for it.
2. Customers who bought their boats immediately before an improvement often ate unhappy about their situation all of a sudden because they didn't get the "latest greatest" version of that product.
So there can be more bad feelings, confusion and discontent if Hobie were to publicly announce improvements sooner than later. The point is that sometimes there are reasons and considerations that influence policies that we may not be aware of.

Defects are a different matter. The 2015 seat fastener is clearly NOT one of them and shouldn't be confused with consequences of customers not properly securing their gear. If Hobie makes an improvement and decides to make it available to previous owners at no charge (which is occasionally done as a matter of good will), that doesn't render the former product defective, poorly engineered, deficient or subject to recall. The 2015 "eyelet and clasp" is perfectly secure as long as the user snaps it in place. The only problem is, some users may be ignorant that it has to be snapped into place rather than merely looping the clasp over the eyelet. The owners manual goes over this in detail and specifically cautions about the importance of securing this to prevent the possibility of having the seat fall out. Additionally, Hobie has made a video (readily available on the Hobie web sight) showing how to properly install the seat using this clasp, again with a caution about the dangers of not securing the seat. Searching the forum also yields buckets full of advice on such matters and the consequences about failing to heed the advice. IMO, dealers also have some responsibility to go over the various systems and check out customers on their boats. Customers who bypass this benefit through mail order do so at their own risk.

The 2016 buckle seat retention has two advantages:
1. it is harder to screw up since it is more familiar to more users who don't bother to read their manuals.
2. The length if this piece is critical and the pre-made strap version eliminates an assembly step to improve the production process. This has no bearing on customers.

The down side is that the buckle is more difficult to secure one handed and still needs to be snapped into place just like the older version. Without testing it, users can get a false sense of security about the connection.So it's still not as "idiot proof" as riveting the seat to the boat.

Hobie rarely issues a "recall". The closest thing to that I recall was in 2006 when some models needed a drivewell reinforcement kit after Turbofins came out. That's a pretty good track record. On occasional defective parts, Hobie is quick and generous in dealing with this on an as-needed basis under their warranty procedures (again through the local dealer).

On a final note, the forum is a great place to ask a question, share an idea, solve a problem, clarify a process, bring up an issue that somehow gets overlooked elsewhere or just let off steam. Many of Hobie's improvements in products and procedures have come about through the forum. For those who choose to take advantage of it, an outstanding resource. Thanks Hobie! 8)


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 03, 2015 6:25 am 
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+1 8)

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 06, 2015 11:41 am 
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as a related side note, you can use a cheap aluminum carabiner thru the seat clip hole to keep the clip from coming off the post. The clip cant come off with the carabiner in the hole.


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