A little props to Chip and Whirlwind

I have to give my humble opinion as I am new to the catamaran sailing. I only wear the life jacket along with everyone on the boat as they cannot be stored easily and I do not want to clutter my deck. For windsurfing you generally would never want to wear a life jacket as this makes it very difficult to get out from under the sail. Once 25 years ago I tried to wear a PFD while windsurfing in the Pacific and quickly realized that you can get killed doing that.....You need to be able to dive down to get out from under the sail. I picture the cat the same way. If you cannot maneuver in the water to get out of tangled lines, sails, wings, and trapeze harness, they might hinder versus help freeing yourself. If afraid of getting knocked out, wear a helmet. You have a floatation device, that is called a hobie.

I will continue to wear the PFD, but only because it is mandatory. There are very comfortable jackets for sale and in the northwest they provide insulation from the cold water. I have no complaints about wearing the PFD.

personally i just think you sound like an r-tard. I can understand knowing the dangers of not wearing a life jacket and saying to hell with it anyways. but saying that a life jacket doesnt help and blah blah blah im such a good sailor and all that stupid (censored) coming out of your mouth. I think you sound like a jackass.

Nice sails tho... jackass

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1971 H16 (sail #1768)

To all of you on the Hobie Forum... I love you guys!!!
thanks for all the help!

well now, wasn't that productive !

Its ok to think that, we are all entitled to our own opinions, but ya might wanna withdraw it from the forum.

We all need to get along !

Peace Out !

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If the grass is greener on the other side of the fence, maybe it is time to water your own lawn.

After I sent my previous post I realized I forgot to give kudos to Chip at Whirlwind Sails. The square tops look like very powerful sails and can't wait to add to my quiver.

Regarding sgtpepperoni, I think he is a dip&^it. He has commented twice regarding my posts and just doesn't get it. I want him to look at 98% of all windsurfers and let me know why they do not wear PFD's even though there is much more chance of getting knocked out or injured on a windsurfer the a catamaran with no one there to help. By the way the other 2% can't swim. Surfers also are in more dangerous situations than on a catamaran and with his logic they should wear life jackets as well. He apparently has NO experience with this and then calls me a jackass. I even said in my post that I have no problem wearing a PFD, but old Pepperoni #$%khead didn't understand the point.

Has anyone been trapped underneath sails, rigging and such with a lifejacket on? If they did I guarantee they were wishing they did not have a PFD on. Have you ever tried to get out from under a sail with your PFD on?

I have an open mind and can see different points of view, even when I disagree, but since I have been sailing 15 years more than little pepperoni has been alive, I realize his experience is very very very limited and not worth a grain of salt. Sorry for the rant but the little boy pepperoni got me going with his little mind!

actually i wasnt talking to you. I was talking to ncmbc or w/e his name is. And the guy says There is absolutely no point to wearing a PFD. He says he is such a great swimmer and such a great sailor that theres no chance a pfd could save his life it could only hinder him. The only reason i say hes a jackass is because he's coming off so arrogent. i probably should have quoted his last message i wasnt talking to you. But when you say there is no point to a life jacket and all it can do is actually mess people up and prevent them from saving their lives.. to me that comes off like an ignorant fool. The people who think they are invincible are usually the ones who die. And thats for a reason.

Listen im not saying ncmbc is a jackass i just think his view on pfds and the way he talks about them is highly skewed. I have no problem with people not wearing a life jacket. Thats there own choice. But when you say stupid crap like ill never get into any trouble where i might need a life jacket. That is just a completely absurd statement. I have friends who dont wear life jackets and refuse to. I think its a stupid choice. One of my friends actually did get thrown into the mast during a pitchpole, not wearing a life jacket and i had to rescue him. He was face down in the water and starting to sink. if it wasnt for me the guy would probably be dead

windsurfing is completely different. i wouldnt say its more dangerous at all. The only reason one really needs to wear a life jacket on a cat is in the case of a knockout which could happen quite easily during a pitchpole. Also i only sail in the ocean and when your out there in the swell and cant see land on a tiny 16ft cat, you can defenitely feel the how tiny your are. That is the big reason i wear a life jacket. I know if my boat sank (1971 h16) which with its age could probably happen, i am always thankful to have my life jacket on.
All im saying is dont think your so invincible that nothing bad could ever happen to you

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1971 H16 (sail #1768)

To all of you on the Hobie Forum... I love you guys!!!
thanks for all the help!

To Spesce:
This is the only reason i said that in the first place. So dont get all butt hurt you old timer. I may not have been sailing cats for too long but when you sail on a 1971 ghetto rig bought for 500 dollars with no money for upgrades you learn stuff the hard way. I have been stranded in the ocean, stranded in a lake, demasted, had a shroud break 2 miles out in the ocean and had to sail all the way to shore on the same tack or demast, seen a friend almost drown, etc. I may have not been sailing for as long as you but i have defenitely been in some serious situations. The two times i was stranded (boat capsized, couldnt right the boat, and i waded in the water for 2+ hours) i know my life jacket has helped me out ALOT! The time i saved my friend who wasnt wearing a life jacket, wouldnt have happened if i made him wear his pfd.

Cat sailing is what i love and unlike you with careers, for the last year i have done nothing but sail my catamaran. Close to 3+ times a week. Thats the great thing about being at a community college. I have a lot of free time. I have probably been sailing more times in the last year than you have in the last 5 years. So dont get in my face and say my opinion isnt worth a damn. You know i love you guys on the forum, just look at my signature. i have learned more from this forum than anywhere else in the sailing world. But when someone calls me out like that i take personal offense. Unlike you speace i can go sailing all day and get up the next day without my back and my knees hurting and cry about it. And do it all over again the next day. ill do it everyday till i cant anymore. You may have more experience cat sailing, and you probably have more experience in laying the transcontinental railway (since you were probably there), but i guarentee you i have just as much passion and enthusiasm about cat sailing as you do.

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1971 H16 (sail #1768)

To all of you on the Hobie Forum... I love you guys!!!
thanks for all the help!

I was the Principal Race Officer for the Canadian F18 National Championships this past weekend in Toronto. We had 37 boats on the water (Lake Ontario).

On four separate occasions, people got separated from their boats. It wasn't super windy - about 15-17 kts. Waves were 6 feet. Water temp was mid-60s as was the air temp.

One happened right in front of the committee boat - a guy crash jibed, his crew wasn't ready for it and got thrown off the boat. Two others were picked up by mark boats and anther person was picked up by another competitor (for which he was granted redress in that race). I'm not sure how they ended up in the water. On F18s it's usually the result of a capsize - the boats move very fast on their side (faster than anyone can swim), and once righted, have a tendency to take off downwind because the self-tacking jib cannot be sheeted out far enough.

If those people hadn't been wearing life jackets, they would have been in a lot more trouble. Cold water and big waves make swimming difficult, and heads hard to see.

ncmbm - This discussion would probably had never have happened if you hadn't brought it up originally. You are entitled to your opinion, however foolish it may seem to some of us. However, if you are ever on one of my race courses, you had best wear your life jacket, or you will find a string of DSQs next to your name in the results.

I'm reminded of the Seat belt debate.

There are those that refuse to wear seat belts because they are afraid of getting trapped in the car.
Yet, statistics show that seat belts save life's, and in many states, if not all, wearing a seat belt is the law. "Click it or Ticket"

Same thing with Motorcycle and Bicycle Helmets. Overwhelming evidence suggests that wearing the helmet improves the odds of surviving a mishap. Yet there are those that refuse to wear a helmet.

It is a free country, you may make the choice, unless you are on a racecourse @ a Hobie Regatta.
I suppose you still have a choice, if you don't wish to wear a PFD, you can choose not to compete.

Bottom line, it IS an individual CHOICE.

I have never been in a situation where I would have died without the PFD, yet I CHOOSE to wear it, because I have seen situations where the PFD HAS been the difference between life and death.

A helmet has saved my life, and I never get on a motorcycle or a bicycle without a helmet.

I guess I could sum up my own opinion by saying that choosing NOT to wear a PFD is just another way of throwing a little chlorine in the gene pool.

I don't see ncmbm trying to convince anyone to take theirs off.

Lets just let this thread smooth out a bit, the name calling and picking on "young guns" and "old pro's" serves no purpose.

Stephen

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If the grass is greener on the other side of the fence, maybe it is time to water your own lawn.

Yes, absolutely. This is by far a more common occurrence than getting hit and knocked out. Boats do get away from the sailors and the only thing you are left with for positive flotation is your PFD. When I have capsized, I make it a point to choose where I will end up (not under a sail), but also do carry a knife like Stephen has suggested. I've also contemplated getting tangled in lines but hey, it will probably be while you float.

Sgtpepperoni, I make a polite call to you to edit out that last sentence in your post, and some other things that are really uncalled for. This is a very nice forum where we come to learn and share experiences and personal attacks are really out of place.

When did this become the case?

8.1 Each person on board shall carry a lifesaving
device or Personal Flotation Device (PFD) approved
by their country’s national authority or by
the national authority having jurisdiction. The
IHCA strongly recommends that life jackets or
PFDs be worn at all times.

Granted, I wear my jacket 100% of the time when racing, so it's a non-issue for me. But unless the 'Y' flag is flying, you can't be DSQd for not wearing a PFD unless I'm missing something.

sm

I believe that if you will look, the standard sailing instructions for a Hobie Regatta REQUIRE that a PFD be worn by ALL competitors.

I'm sure that Matt can quote chapter and verse.

Stephen

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If the grass is greener on the other side of the fence, maybe it is time to water your own lawn.

I write it into the Sailing Instructions for every event that I run.

From the following website (full article there) :

http://www.mercurynews.com/breaking-news/ci_13381935

Quote:

The body of a male windsurfer who went missing off San Francisco's Crissy Field Saturday was recovered about two-and-a-half miles west of the Golden Gate Bridge, U.S. Coast Guard Lt. Junior Grade Jeremy Pichette confirmed this evening.

The man's name has not yet been released.

A Coast Guard helicopter spotted the man in the water at 6:18 p.m. He had been reported missing about two hours earlier.

A Coast Guard motorboat then recovered the body.

"He had no vitals by the time he was brought on board," Pichette said. He said the man was wearing a wetsuit but did not have a radio.

Crewmembers performed CPR to no avail.

Pichette said the man was taken to Coast Guard Station Golden Gate in Sausalito, where paramedics pronounced him dead. The body was transferred to the Marin County Coroner's Office.

Pichette said he could not speculate on whether the man had drowned. He said the body was found intact.

The coroner will make a determination on a cause of death.

End quote.

Notice the article states that the body had a wetsuit on. No mention of a lifejacket? Maybe? Maybe not?

Anybody have more details?

Does it matter?

Can you swim for two hours in open water, without aid?

Have you tried it for even a fraction of that time?

Something to think about...

sorry for the hostility.
this thread has got way of course.
the debate of pfd vs no pfd is an endless and pointless one.

Those sails really do look awesome. I want an 18 so bad!! especially with one of those!
Good job on picking some quality sails

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1971 H16 (sail #1768)

To all of you on the Hobie Forum... I love you guys!!!
thanks for all the help!

Wow! How crazy can people get behind a key board?
I only said something about it because the pictures so clearly show we are not wearing them. In the ocean less than a mile from shore I can swim back if needed.
If it gets crazy we wear the jackets but only for small craft advisories or such. I typically run out and back the same way so I only turn once per trip. There really is little risk with this type of sailing.
Thanks for the comments