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PostPosted: Sun Jul 25, 2010 11:15 am 
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I've had my new-to-me '81 out twice now, both times I've peeled the skin off my fingers with the halyard and, after warping the halyard around a tool to attempt to hook without further destroying my hands, given up and just tied it off.

Does everyone use gloves or am I missing something? Also - any finer points of getting the sail hooked? I always try and rotate the mast clockwise but I can't even see it to tell if it's close; maybe I'll try and find some binoculars next time.


Last edited by vreference on Mon Jul 26, 2010 8:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 25, 2010 2:30 pm 
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I have a FAQ response on this ...

viewtopic.php?f=18&t=371

Quote:
Raising the mainsail of a Hobie can be more difficult than need be.

Several factors can cause the mainsail to be difficult to hoist:

Dirty luff ropes and luff tracks. These can be cleaned with soapy water and a scrub brush. If you want to use a lubricant, keep away from oils and waxes that can attract dirt. Use a dry silicone spray. Most all Hobie sails now have a Teflon threaded bolt (luff) rope to ease the hoisting effort.

Battens and sail shape. The battens stiffen the airfoil shape of your sail. Over tensioning of the battens can cause a couple of problems. Luff protector caps can be forced against the mast and cause drag when hoisting. The battens also force the sail shape into a curve. The luff curve (seen when laying the sail out on the ground, as a large arch) is typical to Hobie Cat main sails. The sails "airfoil" shape is mostly created by the miss-matched mast bend and luff curve of the sail. The luff curve is more than the likely mast bend and when the mast is straight (while hoisting) the difference is dramatic. This luff curve going up the straight mast can cause significant drag and hoisting problems when done incorrectly.

Outhaul. Be sure the outhaul is fully released before hoisting.

Hoist Technique:

Keep the batten tension to a minimum. Hoist the sail slowly, while feeding into the mast opening. When the sail gets about 3/4's of the way up, begin aggressively feeding at the bottom opening and reduce the amount of halyard effort. If the halyard is pulled tight when the sail is not being fed into and up the track, you will have problems. The sail luff will pull taunt and the curve shape will bind in the (straight) mast track. Lower the sail slightly and begin feeding again.

The best way to feed the sail is to stand in front of the mast and reach around either side to "sandwich" the sail between two hands (above the feeder opening) and push the sail up the track. Pull with the halyard, only the slack created, then feed again. If the sail binds, lower slightly and begin feeding again. This technique can be done by one person, but is certainly easier with two working together. It is VERY important that the person on the halyard only pulls the slack up the mast and does not get ahead of the feeder.

Locking the Hobie 14/16 halyard:

Once the sail is fully hoisted (be sure that the sail is fully inserted into the feeder). Pull the halyard forward of the mast by 3-4 feet. Hold the halyard on the centerline of the mast. Pull hard and hold the tension while bringing the halyard into the mast. Release the halyard tension and see that the sail remains fully hoisted. This seats a small bead, in the halyard, under a two finger prong "hook" and the top of the mast. If the sail slips down when downhaul tension is added, repeat the final hoist technique again. Be sure the bead is clear to pass the hook before pulling tension on the halyard.

Locking the Hobie 17/18/20/21 Halyard:

It is best to simulate the halyard locking with the mast down so you clearly understand the system.

Then, depending on how old the boat is, be sure the hook does not have the old "flopper" stainless piece hanging on the hook. This old device caused difficulty in raising and hooking but would make it easier to release and lower.

Also, be sure that the knot tied to the ring is very low profile. A long bowline knot will hit the mast head before the ring gets to the hook.

If the ring has a small loop at the top... The line should be passed through the loop and a small knot tied. The knot (when ring and shackle are afixed to the sail) should be facing the mast. This tilts the ring closer to the mast.

Then (before attaching halyard shackle to the sail) spin the haylard 3 or 4 times clockwise (looking down on the shackle). This "pre-loads" the halyard line and causes the ring to swing back towards the hook. Keep the boat into the wind and hoist. Should lock easily.

To release... fully release the downhaul and outhaul. Partially feed the sail up the luff track. Hoist with the halyard to the top till it stops, hold... rotate the aft of the mast base to starboard, hold the mast rotated, ease the halyard a few feet before releasing the mast. Lower the sail.

_________________
Matt Miller
Former - Director of Parts and Accessory Sales
Warranty and Technical Support
Hobie Cat USA
(Retired 11/7/2022)


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 25, 2010 5:26 pm 
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Joined: Thu Sep 24, 2009 5:50 am
Posts: 378
vreference wrote:
I've had my new-to-me '81 out twice now, both times I've peeled the skin off my fingers with the halyard and, after warping the halyard around a tool to attempt to hook without further destroying my hands, given up and just tied it off.

Does everyone use gloves or am I missing something? Also - any finer points of getting the sail hooked? I always try and rotate the mast clockwise but I can't even see it to tell if it's close; maybe I'll try and find some binoculars next time.


Yes, raising the main is a freakin' bear. My hands would be hamburger without the use of work gloves. I do my best to follow Matt Miller's instructions to the letter but when you're working with a 25-year-old main like I am, you're likely to encounter some additional friction when raising the main (wear along the bolt rope, etc.). Two things that made a world of difference for me (FWIW) were: 1. releasing some tension from the battens and 2. lubing the bolt rope and mast sail track with a couple of coats of "Sailkote". I also received a recommendation from one of the old hands who posts here that I should swap out the large diameter halyard that came with my boat with "skinnier" Ocean 3000 Dyneema line in the 5MM size. Evidently, a thicker halyard will rub on the bolt rope inside the mast, causing yet more unnecessary friction. (The halyard that came with my boat is quite a bit thicker than all of the the other Hobie halyards on my beach. I really need to swap it out)

As for hooking and unhooking the main, I have yet to encounter a problem with this. After raising the main to the point where I think it is high enough to hook up, I typically step back off the boat, catch my breath and have a look-see at the location of the halyard ring. If it looks high enough, I use one hand to rotate the mast clockwise and another hand to tension the downhaul to see if it is hooked. If yes, good to go. If not, raise the sail some more and repeat.


Last edited by BrianCT on Mon Jul 26, 2010 1:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 26, 2010 12:25 pm 
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Location: Gardnerville, Nv.
What does the old flopper style look like?


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 26, 2010 12:51 pm 
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This used to be the worst part of taking my boat out. It just got easier and easier and now it's not really a big deal so stick with it.

The shackle that came with my boat that attached the halyard ring to the headboard was a little short. I got a longer one and that made a huge difference.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 26, 2010 12:55 pm 
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napaboyg wrote:
What does the old flopper style look like?


Here's a photo of the old style flopper:

Image


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 26, 2010 2:08 pm 
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Location: Gardnerville, Nv.
How do you fix old style?


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 26, 2010 4:38 pm 
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You can grind off the rivet on the flopper, or figure out how to use it. I like it. Just keep the mast straight back and lift the ring barely by the hook (clicks), then pull the sail down. NEED a low profile knot on the ring! If I hook the main up to the shackle on the haylard with the bulk of the knot "in" towards the mast, it will not hook.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 26, 2010 8:08 pm 
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I've got a pretty huge knot on my ring; I tested it and it should be possible to hook but maybe something a little more concise would make it easier. I found an acorn sized glob of hardened epoxy rattling around in the luff track that was actually jamming the halyard while I was testing the hook but I think it was only an issue because the mast was horizontal; I suspect it would have fallen down to the base harmlessly whenever the mast is stepped. Maybe placebo effect will help me on the next attempt.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 27, 2010 8:28 am 
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Location: Gardnerville, Nv.
How would the main sail be lowered if flopper is ground off?


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 27, 2010 8:54 am 
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Location: Jersey Shore
napaboyg wrote:
How would the main sail be lowered if flopper is ground off?


Same as it's done with a comptip mast - you pull the sail up all the way until the knot in the halyard hits the sheave, then rotate the mast so the hook turns away from the ring, lower the sail a foot so the ring passes below the hook, then straighten the mast and lower the sail the rest of the way.

The flopper system has not been installed in close to 25 years.

The most important step in getting the system to work is to have the boat pointed directly into the wind. As long as the boat's pointed into the wind, the system works very easily. If it isn't you will have problems.

sm


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 27, 2010 10:19 am 
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Location: Gardnerville, Nv.
Do you have a pciture of the knot and ring assembly properly set up?


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 27, 2010 10:23 am 
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Curious if you guys attach the boom before or after the main is raised. I have always attached mine afterwards. Thanks.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 27, 2010 10:24 am 
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http://www.wonderhowto.com/how-to-tie-h ... ot-177169/

After. The less drag the better. Certainly don't want to tighten the outhaul BEFORE the downhaul (at least on the 17, which is the forum I thought I was in!)

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