Newby and trailer questions

Good Morning and let me start by introducing myself.
Name is Vince and I am 51 years old. I started sailing on Lake Ontario out of Toronto when I was much younger, first with sail boards and then with Hobies. About 20 years ago, I moved to California (Sacramento) and about 4 years ago, I bought my Hobie 18 on the used boat market. The boat is in decent shape but I have been having a couple of issues with the trailer.

1) I have a great dislike for the bearing covers with a grease nipple. I have found (I am a mechanic and do see this fairly ofter) that people over grease the bearings and push the grease seal out of the back side. This happened with my Hobie trailer. The replacement bearings were not very expensive, but just cleaning them are regreasing them on a regular basis would be enough maintainance.

2) Last weekend I completely rewired my trailer. It seems that water, and hidden wires produce failures where you just shouldn't have failures: Inside the trailer frame.

3) I have noticed several posts about the hull cradles vs rollers. I do understand that the point of contact with rollers is much smaller then it is with the cradles and I intend to make a set of cradles for my trailer soon (my trailer doesn't have rollers, but I still like the idea of greater surface area).

However, I wounder how much damage is done by the mast being supported by the cross bar when trailering?

I notice that the newer Hobie trailers come with (optional) a rear mast support. That would get the mast off of the boat and the weight off of the hulls. Over bumpy roads (California roads) the amount of energy that the mast has and the forces being put into the rear hull / trailer cradle area is probably huge.

Does using a rear mast support make launching more difficult?

Cheers and Happy Sailing

I just ordered one today. It only makes launching harder if you forget to fold it down Basicly the verticle part of the cradle sits higher than the cross bar of the boat so it has to fold down when launching and retrieving.

Good luck,

Adam

It makes it nice with the rear mast stand. I have one on my trailer and love it. Where in Sac are you? Who's boat did you get?

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Rich Vilvens
F-18 5150
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I bought a 99 18sx from a guy named Bruce, I guess he used to hang out with fleet 20 and new a few of the same old timers that the friend that I took with me knew.

I live in Fair Oaks and sail with Fleet 2. Now that I have a nicer boat I'm kind of starting to get interested in the racing scene, but don't have that much experience in close quarters and don't have a regular crew. Also would I need to take my wings off to race? Is there even a fleet of 18SX's?

Sorry to hijack the thread,

Adam

Sounds like Vincent is in the Sac area too. There is a race in Santa Cruz this weekend. There is one 18SX racing with the regular 18's. No spin but he runs well in the fleet.

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Rich Vilvens
F-18 5150
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Ha, sorry Vincent I didn't read your post closely enough. Hey if you wanted you should check out Fleet 2. We're more of a laid back fleet that seems to do more family style camping/sailing trips than racing. Check us out at http://www.hobiefleet2.com They were a huge help in getting me up to speed with sailing, and after 3 years of sailing with them they still are teaching me new things.

Good luck,

Adam

Also Fleet 20 has a monthly fun sail in Oakdale Ca. Woodward Res. This month is the Survivor fun sail and relay. Should be a really good time. July 31 and August 1st.

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Rich Vilvens
F-18 5150
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http://www.sailblogs.com/member/f-185150sailing/

Hey guys.
Thanks for the warm welcome.

I live in the Madison Ave / I-80 area. I sail most of the time in the delta. Been to Folsom lake once, didn't like having to paddle back to the put in. Just not enough or consistant enough wind.

I have been spending the last couple of weeks getting the boat and (mainly) the trailer back into shape. Having to take the back roads to keep the speed down on the return, last time, is something that I do not intend to repeat. 3 hours on narrow and rough roads! No thanks.

I would love to do the Santa Cruz event this weekend, but I don't see me being ready. I will have to look into the Fleet 2 and 20 events though. Thanks.

As for a rear mast support, I just finished building mine and I will try to post up some photos of what I did.
I did make the support extendable to make it a little easier to self step the mast. I have found that I can get the mast into place, as long as I have a little angle on the mast, before I climb onto the tramp. The problem has been the mast falling off to one side or the other. Balancing the mast, and climbing onto the boat: not easy to do at the same time.

Any thoughts or comments on the reduced hull load using a rear mast support?

Cheers

I think the hull loading is insignificant. I've never heard of the hulls being damaged by supporting the mast on the rear crossbar while trailering, and Hobie sells equipment to allow you to do so.

The total weight of a Hobie 18 mast is about 55lbs, so at most, the rear support would be seeing 26lbs of static load. In all likelyhood it's less because in most cases the forward support takes more of the load. I realize that the dynamic load from bouncing will increase the force on the hulls, but in reality, when a 200lb person stands on the back crossbar and raises the mast, they're putting way more load on the hulls than mast does when trailering.

The best thing you can do to your trailer to protect your hulls is to use cradles and padding.

All that said, I like trailer-mounted rear mast supports because they tend to be more secure than crossbar mounted rear supports and they also don't cause wear to the rear crossbar.
sm

Where do you sail in the delta? I'm always looking for new spots. Folsom can be a great lake on a windy day, most of those are spring and fall though.

Adam

Thanks SRM. I do think that the loading due to bouncing is a little higher then just a 200 pound guy standing on the cross bar, (perhaps a 200 # guy bouncing on the cross bar), but it was something that I was a little concerned with.
Keep in mind that Hobie is in the business of selling boats. If a hull gets damaged, then they just might sell more boats.

As for the rear mast support, I finished mine last night and I have say that I like the system much better.

Adam, I put in most often at Brennen Park (I think that was the right spelling). It is just past Rio Vista on the delta. Gives pretty good access to Suisun Bay and it is rare that the park has a lot of boats or trailers. About the only problem is getting lost in the Delta channels. But it makes for great tacking practice.

Resting the mast on the rear Xbar is SOP for probably 95% of Hobie owners, and the only damage I've seen is to the rig from not padding/ securing it properly. Having said that, I've got several rear mast stands from Carnai trailers a few years back that I keep tripping on. If anyone wants one send me a message.

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I wouldn't worry about mast weight. I have been carrying a full cat box strapped to the crossbars of our 18 for three round trips of slightly over 400 miles (Santa Cruz to Huntington Lake) the past three years (and am about to do it again in a week). A couple years ago at Huntington Lake I saw a 16 piled so high with stuff (two bicycles, camping stuff, and who knows what all else) it was amazing they event made it.

As I said, the max static load that the rear mast support sees would be about 25lb, that's if each support is weighted equally. On my boat, the mast is favored more towards the front support, so I'd guess the rear support only sees about 10 to 15lb static load. In order for that to exceed a 200lb person standing on the rear crossbar, you'd have to be generating about 15 to 20Gs driving over the bumps. I wouldn't count on any part of the car, trailer, or passengers to survive extended exposure to that abuse. Really, it's a non-issue. As stated above, the vast majority of people support the mast off the rear crossbar without experiencing hull-related problems.



In my experience, that would be totally inconsistent with Hobie's philosophy of selling top quality, long lasting, dependable products which they stand behind. There's a reason they're the leading manufacturer of beach cats, and it sure ain't because they sell a shoddy product.

sm

Never said that Hobie sold or supports a poorly made or designed product. But just like
any company, they are in the business of selling a product, not a product that lasts forever.
Just like maintaining your car, the better that you take care of it, the longer that it will last.
I am just thinking that reducing the weight carried by the hull when trailering, MAY just make our boats last a little longer with less hull repair time.

After all that I have read on the forums about the rollers on the trailers and the damage that is partially caused by those rollers, (Hobie design?) and the amount of work done by sailors to reduce that damage to the hulls, that getting the mast off of the cross bar may just be another way to helping to prevent that damage.

As for the amount of energy that the end of a mast will have when driving over a bumpy road, consider the G loading in both directions. a 25 pound weight that is osolating about 3 inches will transfer considerably more energy into the cross bar that it's weight would suggest. if the loading is 3 g's that means that the cross bar is seeing a 75 pound force in both directions (50 pounds up and 75 pounds down) that is a 125 pound osolation.

Bend a soda can enough times and you end up with 2 halves of a soda can. I would rather not do that to my hulls.

Again, just thinking out loud.