rudders

I'm new to the forum.been sailing hobies for 20 plus years.i have a 1985 hobie 16 and just purchased a 2013 hobie 16.
I seem to have a lot of slop in the rudders for a boat that supposedly wasn't sailed much.i noticed there looked like three plastic bushings in each of the new styled gudgeons.is that stock?I think I need to replace those.also I have adjusted the toe of rudders to the 1/8 to1/4" spec.the boat has a lot of weather helm on one tack and Leehelm on the other tack.looking for any suggestions on how to correct.beautiful new boat that as of right now not fun to sail.thanks!
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I would start by replacing all bushings and adding shims as necessary between the rudder castings and the rudders to remove as much slop as possible.

Check the FAQ for info on adjusting rudder rake to balance the helm.

viewtopic.php?f=18&t=467

If the rudders can't be balanced through rake adjustment, then it could be possible that the rudders have a manufacturing defect and are not symmetrical. What type of rudders does the boat have (solid plastic, EPO II, EPO III)?

sm

The rudders are epo 2.i did adjust the rudder rake on both of them.i used the 1 5/8'' to 1 3/4'' measurement 12 inches down from bottom of gudgeons.i will put new bushings in the gudgeons. Looks like I need to remove the gudgeons to to do this.i just couldn't believe the amount of slop there was in a fairly new boat that I was told hadn't been sailed much.i don't like the idea of having to ream out the rudder casting to put in the ruddertite plastic bushings,but I will if I have to.i noticed the new style gudgeons on this boat have three plastic bushings in them.would those bushings be the same bushings that Murray's marine sells for the rear rudder casting?
Hope I can get this resolved.thanks for any input.

I just went through the rudder system on my 18 last year. The original design was "sloppy" - or at least, it was prone to having lots of slop!

The bushings make a big difference. I also upgraded to the H-20 style adjuster, which removed more slop and makes trailering easier. Get new rudder pins too. Old aluminum pins wear down quickly. If the adjustment screw is frozen, drill it out and replace it. The only sources of slop that I haven't been able to eliminate so far comes from a slight mis-alignment between the upper and lower rudder castings, and from the slop where the tiller extension attaches to the yoke on the tiller crossbar. To combat the former, I added padding to the bottom and sides of the lower casting where the rudder rests against it (actually just used the loop side of some velcro strips) and bought Murray's rudder return kit (as recommended by srm, actually) which holds the rudders tight in place with a bungie cord.

http://www.w1dm.com/projects/HOTLINE/10 ... OTLINE.pdf

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Mike

'79 H18 standard 'Rocketman II' sail #14921 RIP
'78 H18 (unnamed) sail #14921
'08 H16 sail #114312
'97 H21SC sail #238

So I removed most of the slop in my rudders by re-bushing my gudgeons.i have rudder rake set at about 1 5/8".went for a sail today and I still have bad weather helm on port tack and starboard tack has Lee helm just as bad.going to take off the epo 2's that came with this boat and swap them out with my other hobie 16 rudders.if there is no change,what would be my next step?do you think the lower castings are made bad?I just don't know at this point.

My guess is the rudders may be drilled differently. Take them off, lay them on top of each other and use the bolts to line up the holes. You'll know very quickly if they are drilled identically.

It's almost certainly not the castings. I've never seen that be an issue.

Have you checked the rudder toe-in?

Yeah as MBounds said, I was going to say check the toe-in alignment. Also, just to cover the obvious, I happened to spot a fellow on the beach last month who had his tillers on backwards. I have done that before.

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1989 H16
2009 H16 squaretop

First of all thanks for all the responses.i'm going to try 0" toe in.i have been using 1/8 to1/4" toe in.as I said earlier I'm going to swap the epo's out with my other rudders.depending on the results I may swap out the whole tiller system/lower castings from my other boat as well.also when I do put the epo's back on I'm going to make sure they go on opposite sides.. (right to left,left to right).
And no they aren't on backwards but hey,always good to double check.one more thing.with the extreme mast rake on the newer hobie 16's,what rake do you guys set your rudders at?1 5/8" or 1 3/4"?
Thanks,twinhullstwo

I'm new to the Hobie 16 realm as well. I adjusted the toe-in to 1/8". I'm curious as to the difference in force on the tiller when using 0" verses 1/4"? I noticed yesterday under 14-16 mph wind conditions that when sailing upwind I had to pull on the tiller pretty much to hold the line. Would more toe-in or less toe-in reduce this effect? Thanks...

You are probably more advanced at this than I am, but I just went through the old trial and error thing to get it right enough for me. I am one of those guys that needs 6 trips to the hardware store to get a project done, so take this FWIW.

I got some new (my first set) EPO rudders this summer. I measured and eyeballed as best I could. First time out I had weather helm Popeye would struggle to hold. Back on the beach I started adjusting the tillers (adjustable tillers) to set rake. Sometimes it seemed one was good and another was not, sometimes weather helm, sometime lee. The long and the short of it for me was that one rudder was actually not fully locked down. But the EPO's (originals) have fat heads that make them a very tight fit. So the rudders do not kick up real easy and can look locked down, at least to me. When I figured that out, I sprayed WD40 in the bolt holes, loosened the rudder through bolts a little, shaved off a little material where the rudder head goes in the upper casting, and worked them to loosen them up a little. I also greased the cam plungers to make sure they worked well. Then I went through a series of sail-adjust-sail sessions. It is still harder than normal to lock down my rudders after launching, and I raise them by hand when beaching, but now I am totally happy with my little bit of weather helm and the stiffened responsiveness of my new rudders. I've even grown to like the new rudder hum and not in a hurry to completely shave that off.

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1989 H16
2009 H16 squaretop

Where can you get the bushings that the pins go thru ? Thanks


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