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New H16 Mast Rake

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MBounds

Post subject:

Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2008 7:27 pm

Hobie Approved Guru

Joined: Mon Jul 14, 2003 7:11 pm
Posts: 5198
Location: Detroit, MI

rbell wrote:

PLus, can you share a pictrure of an adustable halyard system? I want one.

Dimensions are in the class rules.

Mine doesn't work as easily as I like. The stock halyard is very waxy and slick. It will creep through the cleat if you're not careful.

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skipper0802

Post subject:

Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2008 12:14 am

Site Rank - Captain

Joined: Sun Sep 04, 2005 9:47 pm
Posts: 133
Location: Spokane, WA

Matt,
Doesn't the jib battens hang-up on the 'exposed' halyard? The halyard looks like it is directly in line with the path of the batten ends when it cuts to the new leeward side.

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Eric
H16
Sail# 11500

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MBounds

Post subject:

Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2008 5:27 am

Hobie Approved Guru

Joined: Mon Jul 14, 2003 7:11 pm
Posts: 5198
Location: Detroit, MI

Jib battens are trimmed so that they stick out less than 1/2". Adjustment lines are tucked back in to the pocket and the ends are taped w/electrical tape. They rarely catch.

You can see them fairly clearly in this photo:

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rbell

Post subject:

Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 5:32 pm

Site Rank - Captain

Joined: Sat Sep 16, 2006 7:57 am
Posts: 68
Location: Virginia

could you use a cleat like you are showing for your downhaul for teh jib halyard, so you can pull back instead of down to tighten? Seems like that would be easier to use.. or do class rules prohibit that?

_________________
Raced extensively as a kid (against Matt Bounds!!), just bought a 20 year old 16 and am refurbishing it.

Sail # 21888

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MBounds

Post subject:

Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 5:28 am

Hobie Approved Guru

Joined: Mon Jul 14, 2003 7:11 pm
Posts: 5198
Location: Detroit, MI

Quote:

do class rules prohibit that?

The class rules on the "adjustable jib halyard" system are pretty specific:

Quote:

4.1 The standard 3:1 jib halyard downhaul system
may be relocated if desired.

a) A 3:1 maximum purchase pulley system installed
at the head of the jib may replace the
pigtail and standard jib downhaul system.

b) The cleat must remain on the mast with the
jib halyard running down the mast and attached
to the cleat while sailing.

c) Jib halyard tension may be adjusted while
sailing.

d) The jib halyard can be cleated to both cleats
on the mast to pull the halyard to the centre
of the mast.

e) A cheek block may be added or moved to
the centre of the mast to guide the halyard
to the front centre of the mast. The block
shall in this case be located minimum 51
mm above the base of the mast extrusion
using this and the lowest bearing surface of
the block as measurement points.

f) An additional cheek block may be added to
guide the halyard from the centre cheek
block to a horned keeper cleat. This block
shall be located maximum 640 mm (25,19
in.) above the base of the mast extrusion
using this and the highest bearing surface of
the block as measurement points.

g) A surface mounted cam cleat may be added
in front of the horned keeper cleat to make it
easier to adjust the halyard. The cam cleat
may be mounted at any angle but must be
surface mounted and may not swivel from
side to side.

h) To gain friction the jib halyard may run
through the mounted cheek blocks several
times before going through the cam cleat.

i) When the halyard is not being adjusted the
halyard may run through the cam cleat but
shall be tied off to the horned keeper cleat.

j) Purchase for the jib halyard shall either be at
the mast base or between the jib head and
mast tang. If purchase is at the base it shall
not exceed 5:1 and the halyard shall be
wire.

Here's the diagram from the rule book:

Even though the cleat may be mounted at any angle, the requirement that it be tied off to the horned cleat while not being adjusted kind of forces you to have it in line with the horned cleat. The cam cleat by itself is not strong enough to hold the halyard while sailing - it's not a breaking strength issue, it's a "skinny, slippery line creeping through the cleat" issue.

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rbell

Post subject:

Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 5:54 pm

Site Rank - Captain

Joined: Sat Sep 16, 2006 7:57 am
Posts: 68
Location: Virginia

Matt, your'e right, thats pretty specific!

Guess I should have not been so lazy as to not check the class rules before I posted.

To beat a dead horse, why lead it through the cleat at the base, then up to the cheek block, then back down to the cam cleat/ horned cleat? Other than the answer of "thats what the class rules say", is there an underlying logistical reason why you would not just put a fairlead on the cam cleat and bring it straight down from the head of the sail? seems like running it to the front of teh mast would just encourage the jib battens catching. Not questioning, just curious.

_________________
Raced extensively as a kid (against Matt Bounds!!), just bought a 20 year old 16 and am refurbishing it.

Sail # 21888

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MBounds

Post subject:

Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 7:20 pm

Hobie Approved Guru

Joined: Mon Jul 14, 2003 7:11 pm
Posts: 5198
Location: Detroit, MI

The new boats (for at least the last four or five years) have come with the jib halyard turning block on the front of the mast. I think it happened about the same time when the Aussie jib halyard became standard equipment. Having the turning block in front eliminates the tendency of the mast to rotate toward the jib halyard (to port) from the tension of the halyard.

The whole adjustable jib halyard system has been driven by the Europeans - we've been kind of behind the curve on this.

BTW, the Europeans (especially the French) are really freaking fast.

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adriano

Post subject: adjustable haliyard

Posted: Fri Jul 25, 2008 4:05 am

Site Rank - Deck Hand

Joined: Sun Jul 10, 2005 1:15 am
Posts: 11

i'm assembling the mast raking system (adjustable halyyard) on a hobie 16, does anyone know how much is the workload of the cheek block at the mast base? i was thinking of using a harken bullet cheek block code h092. Even if i noticed than some hc16 use an unknown cheek, must be hobie cat made.

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rbell

Post subject:

Posted: Fri Jul 25, 2008 10:32 am

Site Rank - Captain

Joined: Sat Sep 16, 2006 7:57 am
Posts: 68
Location: Virginia

Thanks Matt- I think a light bulb has gone off for me, and I have learned more about this aspect of tuniing a 16 in this discussion than i have in the last 20 years.

I keep thinking about a quote from the old book "welcome to A fleet" that mentioned something about the idea that in 20 years, it is likley the Hobie 16 will be sailed around a course considerabley faster than we know how to do it today (in 1976).

It would have been inconceivable back then to depower the rig by 2 blocking the main and letting off on the halyard to increase twist in the upper part of the sail- something that has been a huge topic (depowering by increasing twist) in the windsurfing community since the late 1980's.

_________________
Raced extensively as a kid (against Matt Bounds!!), just bought a 20 year old 16 and am refurbishing it.

Sail # 21888

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rbell

Post subject:

Posted: Fri Jul 25, 2008 10:33 am

Site Rank - Captain

Joined: Sat Sep 16, 2006 7:57 am
Posts: 68
Location: Virginia

one more question- do you ever crank in on teh halyard going off teh wind to pull the rig forward, or do you set it and leave it unless teh wind/ sea conditions change

_________________
Raced extensively as a kid (against Matt Bounds!!), just bought a 20 year old 16 and am refurbishing it.

Sail # 21888

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MBounds

Post subject:

Posted: Fri Jul 25, 2008 10:44 am

Hobie Approved Guru

Joined: Mon Jul 14, 2003 7:11 pm
Posts: 5198
Location: Detroit, MI

rbell wrote:

one more question- do you ever crank in on teh halyard going off teh wind to pull the rig forward, or do you set it and leave it unless teh wind/ sea conditions change

Personally, I don't mess with the halyard during a race unless I'm really off on the initial setting (either too powered up or more likely, not enough power). Usually, my crew is not strong enough to do it, so I end up having them steer while I do it. It's just cumbersome.

I do know some people that do, though.

I don't know that it makes much difference - the mast is always supported by two wires with the third one slack. Upwind, the leeward shroud is slack. Downwind, the jib pulls the forestay out and accomplishes the same thing that you would by taking in on the halyard.

It might make a difference in light air when there's not enough wind to blow the jib out.

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Claus

Post subject:

Posted: Fri Jul 25, 2008 2:25 pm

Site Rank - Captain

Joined: Tue Apr 05, 2005 12:44 am
Posts: 85

We adjust mast rake for going upwind so that the halyard goes through the cleat and the horned cleat thigh. When rounding the upwind mark, we tighten the jib halyard (pulling forward the mast), only fixing it with the upper cleat (you will now have a few inches of slack halyard in between the cleat and the horned cleat. Downwind there is very little pressure on the halyard, so the upper cleat is enough. At the downwind mark we just release these few inches, so the mast goes back again. Works like a charm.

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BobMerrick

Post subject:

Posted: Fri Jul 25, 2008 3:16 pm

Site Rank - Admiral

Joined: Thu Jun 15, 2006 5:13 pm
Posts: 280

Claus wrote:

We do the same. I think it is a little faster.

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