Considering an older hobie for purchase - Need advice

Hello,
Looking for a little advice. Have been sailing a 470 for about a year now and am interested in expanding into a cat. Took a look at a local hobie 16 tonight. Appeared to be in relatively good shape. It is an older boat 1980 and I am a little concerned about how well it will sail compared to newer hobies?

It has an older style vinyl tramp which looks in good condition. It appears that they have sailed it fairly lightly since they have had it (about 6 years). The previous owner used it to compete.

Mast looks like it is in pretty good shape, we did not step it since it was getting dark. Any big concerns I should have here?

Hulls are burnt orange color. Look solid and in good shape, only some minor paint touch-up needs on the front of one of the hulls. I read somewhere that the colored hulls are sometimes suspect on the older boats. I couldn't find anything glaring but we also couldn't get the inspection ports off the hulls.

They described it as a "low-rider" and said that the hulls sit pretty low in the water. Could this be an indication of a problem?

How easy is it to get replacement parts on the older hobies?

Finally, is there anywhere I can find good comparison of what the differences might be in the actual design, features and performance of hobie 16s through the years and different models? Are there large design differences?

Thanks.

Depends on what you mean - it will sail just fine (probably - see caveats below), but there have been many small changes made in the last 29 years that add up to a lot of difference between a 2009 and a 1980 boat. Superficially, they are the same, but the details vary - a lot. A 1980 boat can be marginally competitive, but it would take a lot of upgrades ($) to do it. It's not worth it.


Straight, no leaks. I'm assuming it doesn't have a Comptip (fiberglass upper portion). You'd need the conversion to race.


Nothing intrinsically wrong with colored hulls, except they fade and are impossible to color match. Where are the inspection ports? That's a warning sign.


Big time!. Weigh the boat - balance it on two bathroom scales set on hard surfaces (driveway or 2 x 2 pieces of 3/4" plywood). Include the mast, rigging, sails - everything that makes up the boat. If it weighs more than 360# total - RUN AWAY! It's waterlogged. The only thing you can't fix on a Hobie 16 is how much it weighs.


Easy. Boat is still being made and 99% of the parts are interchangeable with the older boats.


Like I said, the boat is superficially identical to the first ones made in the early 70's. There are a lot of details that are different - that make the boat much easier to set up, maintain and sail. If you're looking to race, then go for a boat that's a '95 or newer. They have about 90% of the upgrades. You'll spend more initially, but you'll save a whole bunch in parts.

Mbounds,
Thanks for the great advice. I never thought about the weighing it. I suppose that could be a tricky maneuver but sounds like it definitely is the smart approach to keep from getting burned.



Looks straight. I am not sure how to test it for leaks and there is no Comptip. At this point I don't think we have plans of racing, from what I have been reading Hobie racing is a bit of a lifestyle and certainly for many an obsession. We want to be able to get out on the local lakes and on the Chesapeake Bay (we are in SE PA) and have the possibility of getting some performance out of it. I would love to be out on trapeze and flying a hull.


Inspection ports are in front of the forward tramp posts. If we were able to get them off, I am assuming the biggest thing we would be concerned with is moisture and any softness in the fiberglass?

I also have a question about the trapeze riggings. I have seen some photos of what I think are hobie 16s where there are dual trapeze for both helm and crew. The boat we are looking at only has a single trap rig, but have discussed dual as being an interesting possibility. I am guessing this is really only a heavy wind situation anyway. Is this a retro fit or could this just be another model of hobie?

I have mostly been searching Craigs list for Hobies and I really haven't been finding many later model boats listed. Is there a better place to search? I have seen a few H18s listed but I am thinking after your comments that the H16 is still the better option because of the huge popularity of it.

Last question, one of the other issues that we were looking to solve is when we want to sail with more that just 2 people, I have 2 adolescent daughters who are getting interested in sailing. They don't go out with us every time, but the couple of times we have tried for 3 people on the 470 it is CROWDED. From what I have read in the specs they say up to 4 people on a H16 but is this realistic? I am trying to find a compromise on this one I know that things like the getaway have a lot more holding capacity but I really don't want to compromise what my brother-in-law and I are after and that is speed/performance/trapeze/hull flying. Any thoughts on this?

Again, thanks for the terrific advice.

Sleepy,

Check around the inspection ports for soft spots. If not installed correctly, they can lead to delamination.

If you aren't racing, a 1980 boat can be just as fun as a 2008 boat. You can easily add a second trapeze rig to the mast tang to double trap the boat.

As for carrying capacity, the boat can carry four, but it does lose performance. If you will do that occasionally, I wouldn't worry about it. If, on the other hand, you are going to be out with 4 often, the 18 would definitely be worthy of consideration. It is also very fast, solid and fun to sail. The larger volume hulls handle the weight better and perform better in a larger swell. If you find one with wings (magnum or sx variants), you have tons of extra room as well, creating a high performance chaise lounge!

Good Luck!

_________________
2001 H16E (European Boat) Sail #108348 Cabo
Club Wave
1991 H14T (Crushed by a Tornado)
2006 Bravo (sold)
1986 Hobie 16 (sold)
1981 Hobe 16 (sold)
1980 Hobie 14 (sold)

You might try http://www.thebeachcats.com/ they have a boats for sale area. Ebay has Hobies listed sometimes. You might also go to a local regatta and ask around. I bought a great boat from a guy that was "moving up" to a different class. The added benefit of this is that you get to ask questions and see how the boats are rigged and there are usually many wiling tutors on what to look for in a boat.

Kent
'88 H16 91521

Weighing the boat isn't that difficult. When I bought my 14, I told the guy the first thing I was going to do was weigh it. If it weighed more than a certain amount, deal was off. When it weighed 8 lbs under minimum, I couldn't get the check in his hand and pack it up fast enough. (BTW, I found this boat through the classified section of this forum.)


By yourself, pick the mast up in the middle, rest it on your shoulder and let it tilt back and forth slowly while you hold your ear to it. If there's water in the mast, you'll hear it. Not a deal killer - mast leaks are fairly easy to fix.

You should check out Hobie Class Assn. Division 11 - some of the best racers in the country are in the Philadelphia / Jersey shore / Delaware area. http://www.div11.hobieclass.com/ They also have a Yahoo! group.

Soft spots in that area of the hull are a deal killer. It is much better to walk away from a boat with soft spots. They're like cancer.


The boats originally came with only one trapeze, but two have been allowed for racing since the beginning. The boats come with two these days. I wouldn't call it a "high wind" thing. If you and your crew are ~300#, you can solidly double trap in about 12 kts. The boat is much easier to drive from the wire, but the transitions in/out for the driver take a fair amount of practice.


The boats in the best condition are going to be the new ones the racers sell after about 5-10 years of racing. They don't need to advertise them. A lot of times, they're turned in to dealers (Boatworks in Syracuse, Backyard Boats in the DC area) to sell. Try them if you want a "modern" 16. Look on the used boat section of the Division 11 website. Post a "Hobie 16 wanted" message in the Yahoo! group. These guys know where the boats are.


You won't be crowded, but performance will suffer. Something you should consider - most Hobie 16s race with either husband / wife or father / child teams (minimum crew weight is 285# and you want to be under 300#). Get two boats and go racing with the kids!

Newbies get all freaked out about racing and it's rediculous. You will learn more about your boat in two days at a regatta than you will in a whole summer of trying to figure it out yourself. The people are friendly and helpful, will more often than not loan (or give) you any missing parts, and will coach you on the water. All you have to do is show up. It's about the lifestyle, not about the racing. There isn't a more supportive environment to learn about your boat than a regatta. Not to mention, they have safety boats to help if you get into trouble.