Storm Sailing

I wanted to go sailing today, but had that feeling a storm was brewing. I decided to err on the side of caution and stayed in (I had already packed my gear). At 7PM, the lake here looked like Cape Horn. The recorded wind gusts topped 50mph as per the local airport.

I drove across the bridge (that bridge I dislike) and noticed two sailboats out there (fully rigged & seeking shelter behind islands). They looked to be mid 20' monohulls. What were they doing & why? I'm all about gaining some heavy weather skills, but I think 50mph would likely damage my H16 (at best I could only try to prevent capsize on a run for the nearest shore). I've been wanting to ask this question, but have avoided it as not to sound like a wreckless thrill seeker. But after today, I would really like to ask.. Just how much wind can an H16 handle before rigging failure?

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Anderson, SC
1987 Hobie 16
Learning to sail.

I had my '81 out in a category 1 hurricane. That was in '81 when the boat was new. Winds were blowing 80 ish and there was no rigging failure. The bigger issue was learning how to right the boat after capsizing. Jumping to the front cross beam of the tramp and keeping the wind from capsizing by lifting on the trampoline was the trick. 50 would be quite a bit easier. I'd still consider reefing the sails which is what we did. I warn you that the experience can ruin you for lighter winds. I see no reason the Hobie can't take it; there is a bigger issue generally with the skippers.

50 mph? That would be survival at best, not sailing.

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Bodhisatfa

On a Hobie in 80mph wind....yea right.

Even 50 I would call BS. I've windsurfed in 40 to 50mph (as verified per iwindsurf meters) and there is no way you would want to sail a Hobie in that. Just carrying the windsurf gear to the water in that that type of wind is a challenge. Your Hobie would likely be on it's side before it ever even hit the water.

About 30 to maybe 35mph is the top limit for just about all Hobie sailors in my experience. Many people will call it quits well before that. But most people tend to over estimate the windspeed.

Rigging failure isn't the primary concern in high winds (although broken battens and thrashed sails are certainly possible). The problem is that the boat just becomes extremely difficult to keep upright. Tacking upwind becomes basically impossible and sailing off the wind means almost a guaranteed pitchpole.

sm

Don't consider your lack of cajones proof that all lack them. We were photo'd on the front page on the local newspaper recovering from one of our capsizes. The location was off the Melbourne Causeway in Melbourne, FL and the blow was called Hurricane Dennis in '81. 35 mph winds was where my saliva started to foam to go sailing. And no I don't still have a copy of the paper so the proof isn't easy to get. I guess if you were really interested you could call the paper (Florida Today if I recall correctly). Oh yeah, the local Hobie Fleet tried to vote an award of a DS to me even though I wasn't a member; guess what, it was voted down because we didn't get hurt or damaged and made it through unscathed. Frankly, I don't really care what you think. I'm almost 60 now so my sensibilities have settled some and no I doubt I'd try it again.

I got stuck sailing solo in a squall a couple of years ago in St. Andrews Bay, Fl. with gusts around 35 mph (see attached NOAA graph).

https://tidesandcurrents.noaa.gov/met.html?bdate=20090702&edate=20090702&units=standard&timezone=LST&id=8729108&interval=6

The wind was bad enough, but what did me in was the waves.

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Tim
84 H16
82 H16
87 H14T
Tortola Sails: 115222
Blue Prism Sails: 88863
Clearwater, FL

weather station said gust to 60mph, made one trip across the inland lake of about 2 miles and capsised 3 times, tore a jib block off the H 16 so called it quits. This was back when my 79 was pretty new, like Hogwldfltr said . getting closer to 60 now and no way would I take my H 18 out on a day like that, well maybe if my son and daughter wanted to go. Jay

Did the jib blocks break out of the tracks?
Do either of you guys recall your crew weights?

I’ve been out in it just over 30 mph (inland lake). That 50 looked brutal.. I know I’m going to have to try it someday. My boat stays rigged at the dock & I’m always on standby for an average storm. The one yesterday was a “squall”… rare around here.

http://www.wunderground.com/history/air ... atename=NA

Jib blocks… I can handle that. My main concern is dismasting. The potential for injury on that is not worth it for me. Have either of you ever installed secondary shrouds on an H16?

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Anderson, SC
1987 Hobie 16
Learning to sail.

I guarantee that when you stand on the beach in a true, SUSTAINED 50mph blow, you will have some serious, and well justified reservations about hoisting the sails of your Hobie and going out. That's because this wind strength is so beyond what a Hobie (or pretty much any small sailboat) is intended to be sailed in that it's silly. And if you do get to the point of hoisting the sails, the flogging that they receive and the bucking and bouncing of the boat as it sits on the beach will be enough to make you realize how stupid it would be to go out. You will literally have to have people sit on the boat to keep it from capsizing on the beach even with the sheets totally slack. This windspeed can easily flip your boat over under bare poles if it's not tied down.

A little background on the physics of wind...the lift and drag forces imparted to a body in the airflow increase as a function of the wind velocity squared. This means that the forces generated by your rig do not increase linerally as the wind speed increases...double the windspeed does not result in double the lift/drag forces...double the windspeed results in four times the lift/drag.

The next time you're sailing along double trapped in a "mild" 20mph breeze, with your downhaul socked down to the black band and the mainsail travelled out a foot or so, consider that a 30mph breeze is over twice as powerful as the breeze you're sailing in. A 50mph gale would be more than six times as powerful as that 20mph breeze, and an 80mph hurricane would be 16 times more powerful. So I stand by my prior statement regarding sailing a Hobie in sustained 80mph hurricane winds...yea right.

The only sail craft that have any business being out in true, sustained 50+mph winds, are monoslugs with 1/2 a ton of lead in their keel and windsurfers on sub-80 liter boards and sails 3.5 meters or smaller.

sm

50 isn't THAT bad.

I slugged 3 men and my dog 200 yards across the water to get to my island cottage in a 12' jon boat with a 3 horse outboard. When we got to the island my weather station was reading 50-65 with a peak of 67MPH. It is a shallow crossing, so the worst that would have happened is that we would have gotten all wet, but we could have walked it.

things sure got choppy, though!

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Steve
2017 Hobie 16 "Cayman" sails 114795
1985 & 1973? Hobie 14 "Sea & Ski"

I got caught in a squall/mini tornado in NH at Northwood lake solo. At the time I weighed about 220lbs. The wind started at around 15mph as I rigged the boat (solo remember) and started to pick up more and more. This was a couple years ago when I was still (and still am) very new to Hobies and asumed that the best wind was the strong winds. I got on the boat with no trap and just my big arse on a 79' with hull ports and delam in the bow. Fortunately that wasn't the issue.
The issue was that as I prepped myself for failure, the winds started to pull real hard. I would guess that as I was coming from the beach I launch from the winds were over 20 easy and as I got about 300 yards off shore the winds were kicking at over 30 and it started to hail. At this point the boat started to "slide" into a marsh, grounded then I sat there as the hail got progressively bigger from quarter size all the way up to Golf ball size. I was getting hit in the head and was seeing stars. It was about this time that the wind started blowing to what I would guess is 40 and I rolled right off the boat as it capsized in the mud. I scuried under the sail and whent into duck n' cover mode while the giant hail hit me through the inflated sail.
The storm passed in what was probably 5-8 minutes and in reality the wind most likely never got above 30 but I got leeches from the marsh I wasd in (my wife failed to mention there are leeches in NH lakes I am from CA) and had a rude awakening as to how "strong winds" can take cotrol of the boat out of a newbs hands real quick. I was lucky I didn't make it out onto the lake becuase who knows if I would have made it back. I hope to learn how to sail in 50mph wind in the meantime I still learning how to sail in 20 with a good crew.
Heavy crew, experience, 50mph winds, Why not?

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Corey
82 H16 project complete

I also find that hard to believe, in a 12 foot jon boat you would never negotiate the wave action, unless you had no waves. So I guess the true wind speed is what is in question. Example, I have a 16 foot lund fishing boat with a 50 horse on it, I did get caught in true 35 mph with gusts over 50 and i had all I could handle to cross waves, I was punching through 4 to 5 foot swells with the tops blowing off the bilge pump was running constant, at times to negotiate waves they would break over the transom, trailering was out of the question, I did get to cover, like every one else.

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Bodhisatfa

My only experience with 50+ was on a smaller inland lake. Winds were blowing 5-10 tops.. just minutes before we were quite literally stopped..

My dad was upwind of me some distance making his way to shore to hide from the storm front we could see coming... They are pretty much head to wind pinching to run striaght back to our spot on the shore.. with my dad and uncle sitting near the back of the boat... The next thing I know they are picked up and launched off the boat as it pulled a spectacular wheelie...


So I literally yelling at my aunt (who had never sailed before) CUT THE JIB.. and GET OVER HERE... I had her on the Leeward side the wind was so weak... I had to kick the main out with my foot and then it hit us... The boat took off like a rocket.. on a close reach but there was just nothing I could do to get it turned into the wind fast enough to keep her flat... and over we went...


I managed to get mine back upright and made it to shore no problem..


National Weather service reported it was a 57mph gust with sustained 30mph following.. I love 30mph winds... I do that every single chance I get... that is a riot...


and you bet your ass.. if I know there is going to be 50mph winds sustained... I promise you I am going to give it a go....

Sure.. It will be just a survial game... But so long as the boat doesn't kill me on the way over.. what the heck..... So I wash up on shore a long ways from where I want to be... Worse things have happend....

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www.thehobiewayoflife.com

My wind scale must be way off, I've sailed in 30 G maybe 40 (no 50's) in 16's and 18's and it really was survival, waves so big the hulls weren't really going. 60? NFW. 80 NFW NFW.

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H18, H17 & Various motor boats

Survival is what it's about; that and experience. Anyone who thinks that they can take a waltz in heavy winds clearly needs their thinking adjusted. I really am not talking about an afternoon of sailing. More like an experience of what my capabilities, the boat's, and an education of pushing the envelop is about. I don't know how long we were out for; likely an hour or a bit more. During our first round of capsizing we finally righted just shy of being blown into the Causeway. I'd sailed once before in really heavy winds, that was as a crew to another sailor who had prior heavy wind experience. It was in an FJ up on Lake Erie across from the roller coasters on Sandusky Bay. The boat was half filled with water but still planing like crazy. I'm estimating those winds were 50ish. All the other boats on the lake were nicely tucked away. The good news in these experiences is that the Hobie and I both handled it althouh for neither was it a cake walk.

As far as crew weight; I talked a guy who had never sailed before to go along. He was a big guy (200 lbs or so). I weighed about 140 at the time. He was totally spoiled for light wind sailing by the experience. He had no interest if the adrenaline wasn't flowing.

Finally in retrospect, I'm willing to remove the word "eightyish" and simply say it was a category 1 hurricane if that will make you happier.