EPO2's compared to original EPO's and other????s

I'm upgrading a 16 that I have to be a competitive boat. Great hulls that have had little to no use from the late '80s and stored under shelter. I was a dealer in the '80s, and one hull came from a wrecked boat that a tree got dropped on the other hull, and the other one had it's mate wrecked on the road. I built a boat from the parts of these two that I took back in on trade for new boats, but it's never been in the water. We live on a lake, but we've sailed other stuff we have here.

I'm very familiar with the original EPO's, which were a great improvement in boat handling. I'm just wondering should I put the time in fairing an old pair, or just buy the newer 2's. I've never had one of the EPO2's in my hands. If the 2's are as good, I'm inclined to just pop for a new pair.

Also, does the newer extruded in traveler track on the rear crossbar allow the mainsheet system to actually be lower to the crossbar, allowing for a bit more mast rake?

And another question, I used to make tapered sheets from Yale Light, but are tapered sheets class legal for the 16? Sorry, too lazy to check- if anyone knows a quick answer, I'd appreciate it.

EPO 2s are digitally perfected foils and thinner in the trailing edge. Really nice blades compared to the original EPO.

Yes, the integrated track allows a tiny bit more rake. The newer tracks allow the use of the lower roller with thicker axles and larger brass wheels... a HUGE improvement for traveler cars.

Tapered sheets are not allowed on the 16.

_________________
Matt Miller
Former - Director of Parts and Accessory Sales
Warranty and Technical Support
Hobie Cat USA
(Retired 11/7/2022)

Thanks a lot, Matt! Does the newer rear crossbar still fit in the same corner castings?

Are the EPO2's as thick as the original foils?

Tapered sheets are not class legal on Hobie 16s (any Hobie Class for that matter, other that spin sheets on the Tiger and Wildcat).

Most people use a 5/16" sheet these days.

Thanks. I've always used 5/16ths for the mainsheet on all Hobies, including the 21. I tapered the last part of the 21 mainsheet system that runs through the blocks when sheeted tight, and it made a big difference in playing the main in lighter winds. With all those purchases, any easing of friction through the blocks helps a lot.

Yes, same shape.



Close to same... not exactly sure though. The original EPO was used as the basis for the new shape.

_________________
Matt Miller
Former - Director of Parts and Accessory Sales
Warranty and Technical Support
Hobie Cat USA
(Retired 11/7/2022)

What you can do and I am suprised more people don't is to go with a thinner (1/4") mainsheet on a light air day.Little tough on the hands if the wind gets over 10 knts but the reward is having a great feel of the wind on those light air days.

smaller line is good - but the best thing to lighted the feel of the helm is to get yourself a carbon tiller extension - they change the boat drastically!!!! (legal in H16 class now)
We sell the Euro ext same as standard on the Wild Cat - they retail for $243.00 (part # F99502360)

I agree ,I use the Acme Fatso (built for Lasers) with an extension,but that lightens the feel on the helm,there is still nothing like small diameter sheet to help feel the wind.

My experience with the new EPO2s is somewhat limited, but overall I wasn't too impressed with them. I got a good deal on a pair of the white fiberglass EPO2s and put them on my 18 (which previously had original EPOs on it). I did a direct swap, using the original rudders as a template for the holes. I only raced with them once because the EPO2s seemed much more prone to stalling and occasionally the helm would switch to lee helm. The helm didn't have a consistent feel.

In my hands, the EPO2s feel like they are slightly thinner than the original EPOs although I have yet to take any measurements. Lots of folks seem to swear by the new EPO2s so it's hard to argue with that. Maybe they're optomized for the H16, or maybe I just didn't take enough time to get them dialed in. In any case, they're on my beach boat now and they seem to work fine for that type of sailing. My racing boats run origingal EPOs. IMO, you can't beat a pair of original EPOs- they're the best.

sm

Helm balance and lee helm issues are rake... not foil.

Are you sure they are EPO2 and not the older race rudders?

_________________
Matt Miller
Former - Director of Parts and Accessory Sales
Warranty and Technical Support
Hobie Cat USA
(Retired 11/7/2022)

I've heard that before too. I was a dealer in the '80s and got in the first pair of EPO's that anyone had seen. There was a regatta on Kerr Lake that weekend, and I already had a 16 sitting on a trailer in the parking lot from demos earlier in the week. The EPOs came in a couple of days earlier. I pried a set of lower castings apart with opposing wrecking bars, and sent the upper castings and arms with a friend on the way to the lake who had a machine shop in his garage to enlarge the opening in the upper castings.

Long story short, it was a race to get to the first starting line on time. I had just stuck the rudders together on the boat and got it into the water with barely enough time to make the start. The trouble was, in haste the rudders had too much slop in them front to back, so I adjusted them tight as we floated downwind from the start while everyone else started. I thought we'd just throw out the first race, but we started anyway. Conditions were gusty, but not quite trap conditions, and we decided to start anyway. Most of the other boats where halfway up the first beat.

The race was twice around a triangle maybe a little over a mile long, 8 to 10 knots. By the first reach on the second lap we had passed all but maybe a half dozen boats. This was before anyone had ever published anything about doing the "wild thing" going down wind, but it just sort of came natural in these conditions. We'd head up to get boat speed up a few boat lengths before a gust hit, and then ride the short and frequent gusts down. We passed a bunch of boats like they were dragging anchor. I think this is where the rudders reallys shined in keeping the flow attached during all that steering at speed.

On the last beat we were closing fast and passed all but one boat. Wick Smith beat us by a couple of feet to win that race. If the line had been a couple of boatlengths upwind, we would have won. I'll bet Wick still remembers that race. Terry Hanchey was running race committee. I'll bet he still remembers it too. I don't remember the year, but it was in the '80s.

On the next race, port end Starboard tack was favored. We started closest to the port pin, but a half dozen boats right beside us were over early. We continued upwind after a discussion with those boats about them having to go behind us since they were over early, and I was sure we weren't. As soon as our sail numbers were clear ahead of those boats, the conmittee boat called out our number as being over early, so we were the last boat to restart.

At the second jibe mark, we jibed inside of Bob Poteat into third place, with Wick and one other boat (I think maybe Doug Efland) ahead of us and they could see that we were closing on them. Soon after, the wind died completely, and racing was called for the day. Stormed out the next day, so that was the racing for us that weekend. I've raced a bunch of different things, in many regattas since then, but that one still stands out clearly in my memory.

I'm a decent sailor, but didn't consider myself a better sailor than some of the other guys on the water that day. I had the only boat in the fleet with EPOs that weekend. I sold quite a few after that, but didn't get back to racing a 16 much at all after that. I wouldn't want a 16 without rudders at least as good as the EPOs on it. I'm not convinced that simply having a thinner foil shape is that much of an advantage. Keeping the flow attached at various angles of attack, such as steering downwind at speed, is as important as overall drag, but I don't have the answer either, since I've never even seen an EPO2, much less sailed with a pair.

The tapered mainsheet offers the advantage of doing almost the same as running a smaller line in light wind. I made mine before I had ever heard of a tapered sheet before. I had noticed that the cover on Yale Light sometimes "milked" back away from the end. The core material was many times stronger than anything required for its purpose. I stretched out the line lengthwise in the shop. Cut the end with a sharp knife without buring the end. Pulled the cover up plenty far enough to expose enough of the core, and clipped some of the braids in the core, and unravelled them out. Then just pulled the cover back down and heat sealed the ends. I though maybe the core might unbraid itself some, but it never did.

Since tapered sheets have come into favor, I've noticed a bunch of different classes outlaw them, with the usual reason being to save cost. I understand saving costs, but this was something that was easy to do myself.

21s had to go through pretty thorough inspections before the Prosail events, but I never heard anything for or against a tapered mainsheet at all. It's a shame it's outlawed on the 16, because I'm sure it would make a noticeable difference in playing the main under certain conditons, making the boat more enjoyable to sail.

They are definitely EPO2s. They have the sticker at the top of the blades.

sm

My H16 came with black rudders before I broke one this summer : ( and replaced them with new white ones. How can I tell if my one remaining black rudder is an EPO versus just black plastic?