HELP!! I CAN'T GO UPWIND!!

Hey there,
I have been sailing hobies for a few years and own an 84 olympic special. While I believe I am a good sailor and generally have good rigging set up, I tried out a local race in Madison, WI and I found my boat does not go upwind worth a damn!! Although I can really scream accross the lake on a reach or something not too akin to a close reach I don't feel I am getting the 45 or so degrees I should be getting upwind.

Although I was sailing against scows and generally fast keelboats, it took me as long to do one leg as it did for them to do 2. It was an upwind/downwind so not to my advantage anyway, but I was a bit peturbed. By the way, it was blowing 12 or 14 maybe.

I currently have my forestay clipped three holes from the top of the bridle adjuster and the sidestays are down a ways. I usually pull the jib halyard/stay pretty tight so the forestay sags a bunch but recently with these problems I have been playing with it to little avail. Does anyone have any suggestions? I am also putting up a seperate post about rudder pins and whatnot, so please do look!!

Thanks,
Orion

Hmmm, 45* is a pretty high goal for a old hobie with asymetric hulls. I played with my GPS for a while to watch my tacks - I am far from 90* between two legs. If you fight the stuff with daggerboards - you just have to be faster!
The position you pin your forestay has not much influence on the mast rake (the thing just dangles there while the jib holds the tension). The shrouds are more critical. What is more important - do you have the more current (shorter) shrouds - that is the ticket to more mast rake (and to more weather helm)

Patrick

I am almost positive I am not going any better than 70 or something redicululous so sailing against anything else that goes upwind halfway decent (like 30 in many cases!!) is just redicululous. I have a hella good time across the wind but silly up/down races suck. About the shorter stays... wouldn't the jib halyard/stay tension affect this a lot as well? I will get some shorter stays as well. How much shorter are they? I spose I could find this info on another post somewhere... How bad does the weather helm get at this point? For some reason I only have one rudder rake adjusting rudder casting so I need another one if I do this retrofit as I can easily imagine hardly being able to steer off the wind!!!
Thanks for the help.

Orion

I am almost positive I am not going any better than 70 or something redicululous so sailing against anything else that goes upwind halfway decent (like 30 in many cases!!) is just redicululous.

Hmmm actually 30* is very good! A H 16 will not get there - not even when you rake the mast until it is mostely horizontal.


About the shorter stays... wouldn't the jib halyard/stay tension affect this a lot as well?
Not much - it is mostely where you pin the shrouds. Jib halyard tension is most of the time as tight as I can get it. The forestay will be loose and has not much effect on the mast rake. The limiting factor for mast rake is typically the main sheeting system. The old school equipment (e.g. seaway) builds higher and will not allow for as much mastrake as a three block Harken system. Block to bock is kinda the max.

I will get some shorter stays as well. How much shorter are they?
IIRC somewhere in the range between 1.5 to 2 inches.

How bad does the weather helm get at this point?
Bad... as in your arm gets tired. The problem is that even with the adjustable castings you will max out in terms of adjustability but the weatherhelm is not gone. You probabely will have to redrill the blades.


Patrick

Do you mean I can use my old rudder casting if I redrill my rudders? Should I seal them after drilling? Do you know where to find the rudder pin pattern? Should I use the same size holes?

When I was talking about sailing against other boats, I meant like scows which sail 30 or something. I don't expect to get anything better than 45.

I will try to bring my shrouds down all the way and see what this does, but I first need to fix my rudder issue!! I have an old seaway system with two pulleys on the boom and one double on the traveler. Are you speaking about the new systems with a triple and a triple? I found this one on ebay supposedly for an 18... would it work (I think I can just put a pin through the top there)?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayI ... AMEWA%3AIT

Thanks for all your help. I really appreciate it!!
Orion

You will never point like a scow or other mono hull, but the cats speed over distance makes up for that. You can beat them. That is referred to as VMG Velocity Made Good (straight to the mark). They go high and slow...you go low and fast. You need to optimize your pointing angle with speed. You pinch to high and you go very slow.

_________________
Matt Miller
Former - Director of Parts and Accessory Sales
Warranty and Technical Support
Hobie Cat USA
(Retired 11/7/2022)

Thanks for the reassurance Matt! I was aware of this all along it just seems recently as if I cannot point at all like only 70 or 60 or something... feels like I am going back and forth on the same vector!! I will attempt to rake even more though and I wonder would a 6 to 1 main help me get block to block? I just can't figure out why I am so damn unable to point... It is bad!

Thanks Matt

Orion

6:1 block to block allows the mast to rake aft further and still be able to sheet hard. Maximum rake is when you are block to block on the 6:1. There should be no distance between the boom blocks and the ratchet set on the traveler when fully sheeted regardless of the block set you have. You have to determine what optimal hard sheeting is...then set mast rake to match.

Take a look at the Forums FAQ section on telltails. This can help you sheet properly and not over-sheet. That is critical. You can stall the main. Sheeting harder is not necessarily faster!

In a breeze...keep your weight aft. The bows should be up and the rudders deep. Scooting forward in not good except in light air and down wind.

If it is windy or gusty, use the traveler and sheet harder...even when trying to point high. If the boat will not stay down...travel a bit. Same with the jib track I hear.

_________________
Matt Miller
Former - Director of Parts and Accessory Sales
Warranty and Technical Support
Hobie Cat USA
(Retired 11/7/2022)

the ebay item you found would do the trick - it does not matter if it was supposed to be used on a H18. The smaller block mounted separat for the tripple might turn the thing in a 7:1. IIRC my 6:1 terminates the mainsheet on the lower block. I also think my block diameter might be skinnier... more resistance when sheeting in - but lower stacking height.

Patrick