Delam Decks - Why?

There’s been lots of discussion about delaminated decks forward of the front pylons on the 16s for years. What is it, how did it happen, how do I fix it, etc. One thing that I’ve never seen brought up is why the delams continue to occur. It’s pretty obvious that there’s a systemic problem with the current design that has allowed this potential problem to continue in every 16 ever built.

So, my question to Matt and Hobie is, why can’t the deck area in front of the pylons be redesigned to strengthen it to reduce or eliminate delamination?

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Hobie1616

From what I can tell, it does not happen in every 16. I have a set of 82 or 83 hulls that are very nice. and a set of 73s that need to be repaired.

Causes from what I can tell are:

water being left in the hulls for extended periods of time
UV (Not being covered)
stepping or sitting them.

There may be other causes but these are the major ones that I have heard discussed here and on catsailor.com

Sam

the main reason I see it is water being left in the hulls, and the hulls not being able to vent properly. I know of plenty of used boats that are in great shape, late 70's early 80's. The owners take care of them, store then with the plugs out and bows up! I have not know of any newer boat...lets say 85 and newer that has had any problem with the proper care. if a boat can last 20 years w/o and major issues then I say it was a well built boat worthy of any price paid for it new, wish my car could go 20 years and only average about 100 bucks a year to keep up.

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Brad Stephens
[email protected]
(866) 786-5266 <--- Advice HOTline
http://www.sunjammers.com
www.facebook.com/sunjammers

After 1979 I think Hobie has done a great job with the 16.

Realize the majority of boats will take on a certain amount of water. Maybe the drain plugs weren't quite tightly seated. The hull is warmer than the water and will suck in water through something somewhere. Keep the hulls dry bows up and drain them after each use and all is good.

Realize the basis of construction as a foam core with a thin fiberglass shell. Take a baseball and throw it at the side of your boat. The gel coat and fiberglass will probably with stand the impact and may pop out but the foam will be permanently compressed. Walk all over your hulls, just in front of the pylons, jerking on the main halyard because your sail track isn't clean, you haven't lubricated the sail and track and you have not yet realized the last two feet require the scooch/pull method to get the sail all the way up and OVER TIME you will compress the foam core. The balls and heels of my feet are about the size of a baseball with a few pounds attached.

Realize this is boat built and raced to a one design specification. Because some people choose to not take care of their boats does that mean Hobie should put more resin in the decks? Hell no, then you'll have boats that weigh over minimum and the racers will complain.

Treat your boat as a high performance machine and it will last a long time. I wonder how long it will take to rot the transom of a power boat left outside without a cover?

RANT OFF, sorry

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hobiejohn at earthlink dot net
Fleet 297

I should have added to my original question that I've owned two 16s, a '81 and a '89, and never had any delam problems. I always left the plugs out and the bows up while stored.

That said, it still seems like there enough boats with problems that something should be done to address it. Hobie should be proactive and also be realistic with owners. Tell them bluntly the proper way to store the boat and what will happen if the decks are abused.

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had the following 16's

a '75 bad decks and sides
a '78 bad decks
a '81 a true battleship and the only one I bought new,
so I can't truly comment on previous owners care, or lack of for the '75 & '78.

in the last year was given an '81 solid as a rock and also bought a solid redline '85

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hobiejohn at earthlink dot net
Fleet 297

[/quote]Walk all over your hulls, just in front of the pylons, jerking on the main halyard because your sail track isn't clean, you haven't lubricated the sail and track and you have not yet realized the last two feet require the scooch/pull method to get the sail all the way up and OVER TIME you will compress the foam core.[/quote]

John, your a good guy, but that's a bit of a stretch. I'm imagining someone jumping off the pontoon to get that last six inches. I have a 1980 that everytime I'm righting it, I hear crunch, crunch where I'm standing. I guess we all should just be happy that these boats have lasted this long. I think that these cats have traded hands so many times, no one knew to tell each other early on, (but who knew then?) of these maintenance issues, like the inherent danger of moisture in the hulls. I bet half the hobie 16 owners don't even know what delam is or how to prevent it. Lets admit it, we are an information seeking group and a small piece of the pie. Why would the average joe expect to have any water in his hulls after a leisure hour sail, why would he check and why would he know to check.

Buzz,

Sorry to hear about your boat. Maybe it's time to move on to a better boat? If your hull sides are delaminated too she's toast. You're tipping it over so we know you're sailing her hard and on the edge. I'd hate to read the story of someone getting hurt.

Probably still a good boat for someone to learn how to sail on (no trapezing please).

The best advice ever given on this forum was, "If she's got soft decks walk away from it. There are a lot of 16's out there and you'll find another one".

Unfortunate as you've pointed out, after the heyday a bunch of boats just sat in yards until the covers rotted off before anyone paid attention to them. By then it was too late.

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hobiejohn at earthlink dot net
Fleet 297

Is it being suggested that Hobie contact all known owners of their products and tell them how to care for them? We have to keep in mind that most of us are buying a 20-30 year old performance sailing machine that has had at least one prior owner. Once the boat leaves the showroom/factory Hobie has no control over what the owners do for storage. This is a risk we all assume when buying used goods.

I'm not sure what the expected lifespan of the H16 was when they first started building them, but I would say that 30 years is not too bad.

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Nick

Current Boat
In the market
Previous boats owned
'74 Pearson 30
'84 H16
'82 H18 Magnum
St. Louis, MO

No Nick, just a discussion. Now that you bring that up. Just because you buy a used car doesn't mean the manufacturer gets off the hook when the wheels fall off even if it is 30 years old. By the way are you headed to Ohio? Annapolis for Ohio, sounds like a therapy savings account be put in order.[/quote]

Delamination is an age old issue. This has never been considered a design defect. Maybe a materials or workmanship problem though.

We have not had issue with it for many, many years. I can not recall a delamination in a boat (or a warranty claim for it) it my recent memory. This was primarily seen with boats built in the late 70s and early 80s. There was a different foam used and that foam may have been less stable in abusive conditions than what we have used since.

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Matt Miller
Former - Director of Parts and Accessory Sales
Warranty and Technical Support
Hobie Cat USA
(Retired 11/7/2022)

I'm not sure about Ohio yet. My parents live north of Columbus and I will be there for Christmas. I will talk to my possibly new boss then about the opportunity. Long story but he is trying to create an open position for me if I end up wanting it. I won't make the move until late June as my wife is a school teacher and we don't want her to leave in the middle of the school year.

Speaking to the manufacturer's liability. I know in aircraft there is a statue of limitations on manufacturer's liability. I think it is 20 or 30 years, I can't remember for sure. The reason small planes virtually stopped being manufactured in the mid 80's was due to 40 year old planes that were not maintained properly having accidents and the pilot or there family suing the manufacturer. In the early 90's the statue of limitation was passed and you saw small planes being built again.

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Nick

Current Boat
In the market
Previous boats owned
'74 Pearson 30
'84 H16
'82 H18 Magnum
St. Louis, MO

Nick,

If you do make it through Columbus. Give me a shout, we are www.columbussailingclub.org and I could show you your Columbus options, of course, I'm more concerned of where your boat might live. Real Estate is my profession as well. The nice thing about our club is we step the mast once a year and we park them 10 feet from the water. The down side is we have to pray for wind. We have Lake Erie 2 hours away, which is similiar to the ocean at times.

If we end up in that area I may want to talk to you about finding a place to live. The job is in Piqua and I am thinking Dayton might be the best bet to look for a house. I gotta keep the wife employed too.

As far as keeping the boat, as long as I have an open space that can handle the trailer I will be fine. I have never had mast up storage so I don't know what I'm missing

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Nick

Current Boat
In the market
Previous boats owned
'74 Pearson 30
'84 H16
'82 H18 Magnum
St. Louis, MO

Just look at all of the 25 year old H16's sitting on beaches or their trailer with the sun beating down on them day in and day out. That's how a vast majority of the H16's spent their lives. There are about 50 of them in the harbor parking lot next to my shop right now... uncovered with drainplugs in and probably a little water in the hulls from the last sail. Those are the conditions that destroy the core/deck bond...pure neglect.
If your 20 year old Hobie doesn't have soft spots, you should go out right now and take your drain plugs out, tilt the bows up and get some sort of cover.
How many of us drive 30 year old sports cars to work? Not many. It would take a lot of care and maintenance/money. The better the car was cared for through the years, the better the condition would be today. Just like our boats. Now, when buying an old car most of us would stay away from one that was completely neglected, or be prepared to do a full resto. The same with our boats. Pony up a little more dough for a Hobie that is solid...you'll be better off in the long run.
Hobie has a great warranty on all of their new products!

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