Sawing the Main

Hi all,

I've been doing alot of F18 crewing lately, and on those boats they have the crew "saw the main" while the skipper steers. Since we don't really have to do much after the jib is set, they will hand the crew the main sheet and have us sheet it in and out to build pressure on the sails while reading the puffs. Some of them have told me "it's like a mini turbo boost on the racecourse".

I talked with the local H16 guys and they said they do NOT hand their crew the mainsheet. I'm wondering if it's advantageous to get my H16 crew to saw the main in a similar fashion to what I have been doing on the F18s. Was wondering if any of you H16 skippers do that too?

Hopefully an F18 skipper or two will chime in on this as well. Would be nice to hear their opinions.

-Evan

Evan - Great question! I've never heard of the term "saw the main" before, but what I do is:
(1) Most of my sailing is with people I like a lot, but either they are inexperienced or I just don't trust them yet; so, I have them set the jib and I handle both the main & tiller.
(2) If I'm showing them how to sail I'll hand them the tiller, but I'll still handle the main.
(3) If I know them well and trust them completely, I'll either take the main or the tiller and they can have the other one. It's much easier to sheet in the main hand over hand, or using both hands to get the main very tight.
So, I think it all comes down to age, maturity and trust before I turn over the main to anyone on my Hobie 16.

Very true. I wouldn't let somebody drive the more essential parts of my boat without knowing their "sailing resumé" per se. However, I'm wondering if in a race that sawing the main like we do on the F18s helps out in the long run on the Hobie like it does on the F18. So, this is more for a race context rather than a day sailing/cruising context. Let's, for the sake of my original question, assume that the crew has just as much sailing experience as the skipper does.

I raced a Tiger for 4 years and I've raced 16s for 43 years.

The mains have very different trim characteristics because of the head shape (16 - pin head; F-18 - square head).

On an F-18, working the main allows the square head to open up and is very effective at modulating power to maintain an even heel angle. Working the downhaul from the wire has a similar effect.

On a 16, the working the main isn't as effective - but working the traveler is. I've watched Jason Hess' crew work the traveler to great effect upwind. Hard to argue with his results (current NA champ, Pan Am gold medal)

Hmmm... Sawing the traveler instead of the mainsheet would be harder though, it's a simple 1:1 pulley system instead of a 6:1 on the mainsheet. The F18s, as you know, have 8:1 or 10:1 on their mainsheet.

Also, would like to inquire about the physics behind sawing the traveler instead of the mainsheet. Going upwind, I don't see it being that different sailing physics wise. Do you know why it's superior?

Maybe this question is too complex for most of us here, and I'd have to speak with Jason Hess himself about it.

BboySlug,

In response to your question, YES, I've seen several Hobie16 crew sawing the main and upon occasion, I've seen the crew managing both the main and the jib. In addition to many of the points that Matt and Rich were making, I think that both sailors must be synchronized in their sailing styles and I think it takes a lot of practice to get there. I have seen two experienced sailors look like amateurs just trying to launch in high winds and waves. When a skipper crews for another skipper, it is important that he remembers that HIS way is not THE way. Beyond that, it takes much practice to accomplish that goal, especially while sawing the main. I had a hard enough time just keeping a regular crew.

See vid of the H16 below:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kt0QCFFzIb8

Now, in regards to the difference between the design of the H16 and an F18, these are two entirely different puppies. Even with the self tacking jib on the F18, the design is much more complexed than the H16, performance-wise. Sure, you can take them both on a day-sail but getting the most out of each boat's performance is a different story. There's hull shape, hull volume, mast shape (cunningham), sail shape (square-head as opposed to the pin-head of the H16), e.t.c. They are so different that I would be willing to wager that many F18 sailors don't even take advantage of those complexities to gain a performance advantage. They just set 'em and sail 'em. When was the last time you saw a compass on a H16 ??? All these little tid-bits make a difference. The point that Matt was making is that it's easier to dump a gust (without losing boat speed) with a square-head sail than it is with a pin-head even though the square-head has more over-all surface area.

Sawing the main ??? It's like I've always said about boxing. Styles make fights !!! A counter puncher makes for a dull fight but he has just as much of a chance at winning as a slugger. If you saw any of the fights on Sunday afternoon, you know exactly what I'm talking about. Whatever works for you !!!

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Happy Sailing,

David

I don't understand what is being debated

I've seen videos of experienced Hobie racing crews constantly making small in/out adjustments of the main sheet and traveler. I assume they are balancing the boat to keep it at the optimal amount of heel as the wind fluctuates. The captain has the tiller and traveler and the crew has the main and jib.

I've also read about what's called "pumping" the sail which is done by windsurfers and dinghy sailors to get a momentary bit of extra thrust to get on a wave or on a plane.

Is "sawing" one of these?

Pumping I see more as moving the entire sail at once and pulling it towards the wind. In light winds, sometimes you'll see dinghy sailors pump their sails to using the heave motion of the boat to create wind in the sails letting them sail forwards. Windsurfers can pump too by letting in and out on their boom with their arms.

Sawing the main is an F18 racing term being applied in this conversation to the Hobie. It's the act of adjusting the main and/or traveler in and out with the puffs of wind to achieve a sailing advantage. This sort of "kinetics" is illegal in collegiate sailing (which is where most of my racing experience if from) and so it has stemmed my interest. The "saw" nickname comes from the motion of the main sheet going in an out of the [free flowing] cleat, like a sawing motion.

Dave and MBounds:

Okay, so I'm still confused about handing my crew the traveler vs the main sheet if I ever end up on that level. I suppose the skipper won't ever saw the main traveler, his only reason to use the traveler is to dump TONS of wind in the event of an emergency to avoid capsize. However, it will be advantageous to dump smaller amounts of wind to keep the ideal heel of the boat by having the crew saw the main sheet?

Or, do you all saw both the main sheet and the main traveler? Just, the traveler is more like a course adjustment and the main sheet is more of a fine adjustment?

Thanks in advance, great forum, great advice, great discussion.

The video that Dave posted showed the crew handling the traveler. My experience is that it's difficult (as skipper) to control the helm and adjust the traveler, so what I see there makes sense. The crew doesn't need to do much with the jib, so has both hands available for the traveler. Skipper can do the main mostly with one hand.

_________________
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I believe pumping the main and heaving the boat back in forth is illegal in racing, much like sculling the rudder.