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PostPosted: Fri Aug 16, 2019 5:20 am 
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Location: New Hampshire
Ever been out in a decent feeling breeze, been on what you think should be a good tack and just feel like the boat should be going much faster?

Last night I was out, Had a decent breeze going. The wind report said 6 with gusts to 10. I was on a tack with the wind coming from ~45 degrees forward to the windward side. Strong enough that if I had enough hair it would be blowing around. And it just felt like I should have been going much faster. Tried tighter sails, looser sails, moved the traveler, tighter, looser jib but just never felt like I was going as fast as I should have been.

Am I just on a night I should have taken the 1100 jetski out or something else I should have tried? I just checked and there is no water in the hulls.

Maybe I need to wax it again!

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84 14T Redline #67 Blue Hawaii faded but still working!
82 Yellow hull16 '81 Boomer nationals 20.9 on GPS
83 White hull 16 No sails "Clean and Purty Now!"
87 White hull no sails no tramp


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 16, 2019 5:25 am 
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Location: New Hampshire
My boomerImage

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84 14T Redline #67 Blue Hawaii faded but still working!
82 Yellow hull16 '81 Boomer nationals 20.9 on GPS
83 White hull 16 No sails "Clean and Purty Now!"
87 White hull no sails no tramp


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 16, 2019 7:50 am 
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Joined: Thu May 24, 2007 5:28 pm
Posts: 86
Location: Bristol, IN
A1cnc wrote:
Ever been out in a decent feeling breeze, been on what you think should be a good tack and just feel like the boat should be going much faster?

Last night I was out, Had a decent breeze going. The wind report said 6 with gusts to 10. I was on a tack with the wind coming from ~45 degrees forward to the windward side. Strong enough that if I had enough hair it would be blowing around. And it just felt like I should have been going much faster. Tried tighter sails, looser sails, moved the traveler, tighter, looser jib but just never felt like I was going as fast as I should have been.

Am I just on a night I should have taken the 1100 jetski out or something else I should have tried? I just checked and there is no water in the hulls.

Maybe I need to wax it again!


Image
Maybe trying to sail too close to the wind? At 45 degrees to headwind, your speed will be very low. I'm on a small lake, so I head to the windy side and just beam reach back/forth, which, according to the chart should be the fastest you can get. After each tack, I take a look at a flag to see which direction the wind is going, then try to set my course as close to perpendicular to the wind (90%) as possible, then adjust my traveler/sheet accordingly to get the best flow around the sail. 6mph wind feels slow as it is, in my opinion, from what I've read, you really can't get much faster than the wind speed. I try to go out if the wind is steady 10+ or more, anything less and it feels slow to me, but I like the thrill of faster wind. I managed 22mph solo (gps) with wind reading 15mph and 20mph gusts, + or -.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 16, 2019 10:22 am 
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Posts: 150
Location: South Boardman, Mi
SlowSL is probably right. 45 deg apparent wind should provide good speed. 45 deg true wind and you are pinching. When troubleshooting a slow upwind boat, trim sails for upwind and steer around until you go fast. Then, play with sail trim to fine tune.

Factors that make a hobie 16 slow, ranked:
1) Absence of wind.
2) Point of sail
3) Excessive Crew Weight (500+Lbs)
4) Sail trim
5) Rig Tuning
6) <Intentionally left blank to emphasis how unimportant #10 is>
7) <Intentionally left blank to emphasis how unimportant #10 is>
8) <Intentionally left blank to emphasis how unimportant #10 is>
9) <Intentionally left blank to emphasis how unimportant #10 is>
10) Rudders (EPO?) Hulls (heavy build or filled with water) Frame (flex) Gelcoat (waxed smooth)


Upwind sailing tips:
Sailors tend to pinch (sail too close to the wind) especially in lighter air (wind<15MPH). Fall off a little and pick up some speed.

Downwind:
Again, sailors tend to sail too close to a dead run, in both light and moderate air. Find the course where you will slow down significantly if you head further down wind, but won't speed up much if you head up.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 16, 2019 11:14 am 
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Joined: Thu May 24, 2007 5:28 pm
Posts: 86
Location: Bristol, IN
Your #10 just reminded me, at one point, I checked my rudders and they were toed out some crazy amount. I corrected to 1/8"-1/4" toe in and had a noticeable increase in speed.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 16, 2019 11:46 am 
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Joined: Tue Jul 19, 2005 6:29 pm
Posts: 2652
Location: High Point, NC
In winds of 6 to 10MPH, your top speed/s is not likely to exceed 5 to 8 MPH, depending upon which course of sail you are on.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 16, 2019 1:09 pm 
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Location: New Hampshire
So my crew weight (just me) is 230# I set the stays in the 3rd hole but I have no twist links in so probably would make it normally the 2nd hole. The Forestay I tighten as much as I can.

The more I sail the less I feel I know about sailing!

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84 14T Redline #67 Blue Hawaii faded but still working!
82 Yellow hull16 '81 Boomer nationals 20.9 on GPS
83 White hull 16 No sails "Clean and Purty Now!"
87 White hull no sails no tramp


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 16, 2019 9:26 pm 
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Location: Opelika/Lake Martin, Alabama
By the way... you’re Boomer looks nice!!!


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1984 H16 Yellow Nationals Redline, "Yellow Fever"
Lake Martin, 'Bama.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 17, 2019 5:49 am 
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Location: New Hampshire
Thanks Marty,

I did a little checking to see what might have been going on and this is what I found, The rudders were WAAY toed out. Measured ~ 5/8" off. I brought it to 1/8" toed in and sailed it last night.

I definitely noticed a difference. I had a friend on my boat with me so I wasn't going as fast as I would have solo but I can definitely say if your boat feels slow or the rudders seem to drag when you are turning CHECK THE ALIGNMENT! I know I had set it up right when I first got the boat so I don't really know how it could have drifted that far off but whatever, another thing to check periodically now!

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84 14T Redline #67 Blue Hawaii faded but still working!
82 Yellow hull16 '81 Boomer nationals 20.9 on GPS
83 White hull 16 No sails "Clean and Purty Now!"
87 White hull no sails no tramp


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 17, 2019 12:56 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jun 21, 2009 7:32 am
Posts: 387
Location: Lake Gaston, NC
Boat trim, and a steady hand are the two most important things in light wind. I see the majority of people with the bows up, and sterns dragging. That's Slow. The bottom of the sterns should be just out of the water, and as much buoyancy as possible provided by the leeward hull, to cut down on wetted surface area. Move back, and to windward only as the hull gets pushed down into the water too far.

But overall, on any cat, and especially lightweight ones, the single most important thing is not to move the rudders. Sail along with everything trimmed properly, pinning the tiller down on the sidebar, then pick it up and move it back and forth, and see what happens. When watching videos of cats, notice what's happening with the horizon behind the boat. Steady is fast. You have to build up your apparent wind, but any unnecessary movement of the tiller kills any gain.

Waxing has proven to be actually more drag than wet sanding with really fine paper, but we're still talking minutia.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 18, 2019 6:33 am 
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Location: New Hampshire
Thanks Tom,
I have noticed even in stronger winds the further forward I can be (when solo) seems to be faster. I attributed it to the narrower cross-section toward the bows giving less drag. I am fortunate to have a waterproof gps (handheld) that also has given me some insight on what sail settings, headings work.

Seem to learn a bit more each time I sail, Or at least I HOPE I am!

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84 14T Redline #67 Blue Hawaii faded but still working!
82 Yellow hull16 '81 Boomer nationals 20.9 on GPS
83 White hull 16 No sails "Clean and Purty Now!"
87 White hull no sails no tramp


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 18, 2019 12:04 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jun 21, 2009 7:32 am
Posts: 387
Location: Lake Gaston, NC
Frontal area is not so much of a concern. Look at the wake right behind the hulls. Smoother is fast. Gurgling, and rolling is slow. Waterline length is fast. Going upwind, with no centerboards, the flatter side of the lee hull is your wing in the water.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2019 5:58 pm 
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Joined: Wed May 29, 2019 4:20 pm
Posts: 5
SlowSL wrote:
Your #10 just reminded me, at one point, I checked my rudders and they were toed out some crazy amount. I corrected to 1/8"-1/4" toe in and had a noticeable increase in speed.


How did you go about checking the toed amount?


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2019 6:24 pm 
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Location: New Hampshire
I used a tape measure and measured from center of the front of the blades to the center of the back of the blades about 10-12" down

_________________
84 14T Redline #67 Blue Hawaii faded but still working!
82 Yellow hull16 '81 Boomer nationals 20.9 on GPS
83 White hull 16 No sails "Clean and Purty Now!"
87 White hull no sails no tramp


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 20, 2019 4:45 am 
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Joined: Mon May 24, 2004 10:33 am
Posts: 557
Location: Clinton, Mississippi
A1cnc wrote:
The more I sail the less I feel I know about sailing!


A1cnc wrote:
Seem to learn a bit more each time I sail, Or at least I HOPE I am!


Sounds like you're on the right track to me!!!!

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Jerome Vaughan
Hobie 16


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