The diving leward bow

This is probably a dumb question, but what I'm hoping some of the sailors with more of the "technical/dynamics" sense of this boat can help explain. When I am sailing upwind, most of the time solo, the leeward bow seems like it really wants to dig in. What is going on that makes this happen? It seems like I've come close to burying it, but I usually chicken out before it happens and dump the main. I would assume it has more to do with the jib than the main, but I really don't know. I'm kind of a self-taught sailor with a limited knowledge of the actual dynamics that are going on. I usually set my jib by going really tight on the halyard, setting the clew?/front of the jib about half way down on the bridle chin plate, and the tack/back of the jib on the center hole. I usually keep my weight pretty far back on the tramp when sailing or hiking upwind, and sometimes even trap off the stern. I'm sure you guys are familair with the sensation, sometimes it feels like the boat is just slowly leaning foward when I get up to speed. I'm constantly watching the leward bow as I would rather not pitchpole. I know, I know, pitchpoling is part of cat sailing. Are there any techniques I can use to help level the boat better? What are your opinions?

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James
86' Redline Hobie 16
Sail # 76909

how much mast rake are you running? Rake the mast back it will bring bows up.

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Brad Stephens
[email protected]
(866) 786-5266 <--- Advice HOTline
http://www.sunjammers.com
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That could very well be it, suprisingly I didn't really think of that. My cat is an 83', have had it for three years, and I don't know what length rigging is used on it. I know what your going to say, it should have already been replaced, but I examined it very closely and it looked great when I got the boat. Granted, that was a few years ago. It's on the list of over-the-winter replacements, along with a new tramp. Thanks for the quick reply. What is the forstay lenght on the newer boats, I'll measure it to see if I have old rigging or not. There is some rake but it doesn't look like it is nearly as much as the newer boats.

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James
86' Redline Hobie 16
Sail # 76909

I assume this to be up to date.
http://www.hcana.hobieclass.com/?Page=2169

_________________
Brad Stephens
[email protected]
(866) 786-5266 <--- Advice HOTline
http://www.sunjammers.com
www.facebook.com/sunjammers

Forestay length has little to do with your mast rake, other than to limit it.

The way you measure mast rake is to rig the boat, then take the main halyard tail out to the windward bow. Hold it taut to the tip of the bow and hold that spot with your thumb. Lead it back to the stern and hold it taut to the bottom point of the transom.

The distance between your two marks is the mast rake measurement. Most racers carry 16" to 20" of rake.

If you've got an older boat without low profile blocks, you won't be able to carry that much rake - you won't be able to sheet the main in all the way.

Thanks for the explanation, Matt. What tips do you have for raking back the mast?

A great deal depends on your mainsheet setup and minimizing the stack-up. That's the most critical thing in acheiving maximum mast rake and still being able to sheet in enough to have a firm leech upwind.

You can add an adjuster to the forestay to make it longer and you can move the jib tack up to give you more sheeting distance on the jib (although you need to minimize that stack-up, too).

The shroud length is not at critical. I don't care how tight you get your jib halyard, the leeward shroud is always loose upwind. Therefore, I don't carry a really tight rig. That lets the rig go forward some downwind which is faster and lets the mast rotate freely.

Thanks Matt. I should be going out Sunday or Monday if there is wind and I'll do the measurements. I do have the 6:1 blocks. I know if I add more rake I'll probable have to change my wires. When I set the forestay it is at the top of the chinplate. The shrouds are at the very bottom hole of the chinplates. There is still a little play in the shrouds this way and it isn't really too tight. I use your definition of shroud tension from another post to determing where to set the shrouds in various wind conditions, the one where you measure by turning your wrist. That has been helpful. I'm definately going to replace the wires soon so I'll be sure to check the next time I go out. It seems that the jib halyard tension removes some of the rake when I rig, with a really loose forestay. Thank you very much for the replies. I'll ask some of the folks at the "sweet" 16 regatta when I attend next weekend as well and maybe I'll get a little bit of a better idea about proper rake. Wish me luck, it will be my first regatta.

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James
86' Redline Hobie 16
Sail # 76909

You could not pick a batter event for your 1st. I like what Trey is doing up there. Let me know if there is anything else we can do to help! Oh yea GOOD LUCK!

_________________
Brad Stephens
[email protected]
(866) 786-5266 <--- Advice HOTline
http://www.sunjammers.com
www.facebook.com/sunjammers

Thanks man, I'm really stoked. It sounds like it's going to be great.

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James
86' Redline Hobie 16
Sail # 76909

See you there. You can see my outta rig boat, and learn nothing from me! I sure hope it doesn't turn cold by then.

Right on, glad your going to make it, look foward to meeting you. Yea, I'm hoping the temps hold steady, although it's been freakishly warm. I was at Jordan last weekend and the water was still bearable, should be going tommorow as well since I just saw the forecast calling for 10-20 mph winds tommorow.

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James
86' Redline Hobie 16
Sail # 76909

Maybe this week, I'll rework my rigging. I have minimal rake. I never quite understood the whole low profile block thing until I really looked at the pic in this thread. I will need to shorten my shrouds- they are already on the bottom hole of the adjusters and I removed the intermediate (swivel?) piece. Of course then I'll need to extend the (temp) forestay.

Of course, I'm coming to see and will likely not "race" - that is not a term that describes my sailing abilities!

Yeah, I have no idea what to expect. But, I'm glad that this one is going to be pretty informal, from what I've heard. I think there is going to be a few different race formats. But, I've got to come in first so I can get the harness that sunjammers is offering as the prize, I believe. I'm hoping it blows like hell so maybe my 250 lbs will serve me as an advantage opposed to a dis-advantage. I'll definately be going out tommorow if you want to join, I can't remember exactly where you are in NC, If I remember I think it's near little Washington? Reguardless, I'll see you there. I've got to try and do well to make up for my lack of attendance at the Hatteras regatta due to a blown tranny on my ford taurus. At least I know my new to me Yukon will get me there this time, as far as performance, we'll just have to see.

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James
86' Redline Hobie 16
Sail # 76909

That's a no-no. The toggle is there for a reason - to provide a neccessary universal joint to prevent the shroud anchor pin from breaking.

That's why it's not class legal for racing