Hobie PA vs revolution 16 for big water?

Hello,

Let me give you some history on myself just so you know where I'm coming from when I ask these questions.

I consider myself a pretty serious kayak fisherman and spend 80% of my time on Lake Erie in Ohio. I currently fish out of a Ocean Kayak prowler 15'7" boat. It's proven it's self many times to be a boat worthy of Lake Erie and her ever changing conditions. On a good day I can paddle 25 miles circumnavigating the bass islands while fishing and has handled some serious waves. (3'+ waves)

I've been paddling on Erie for 4yrs now and have had and been around power boats my entire life. I have a sit in touring kayak also and have practiced rolling and self rescuing myself with both boats.

So onto my questions!

I'm really starting to think I need a hobie for fishing. I'm sold on the whole hands free fishing thing and the old trusty Ocean Kayak is starting to show her age. Everything I read online says the pro angler is the only way to fly but with the high sides I can only imagine this battle ship can be a handful in a crosswind. Also the tuna tower seating position looks like a very high center of gravity in rough water. These may or may not be real concerns for this boat, I don't know. These concerns bring me to the revolution 16.

This boat looks more like my OK and seems like it should work better for Erie to me but again I don't know. I'm sure the revolution is a faster boat vs the PA and that's important to me since most my fishing spots are a mile or more from my launch sights. I know the revo will be much less stable than the PA but similar to my Ok. Standing while fishing would be a nice option but not a major factor in my decision.

My next question is how fast will the cruising speed be on these boats given the same conditions with the same load, and peddler? I don't want to be going slower than I do now. I have a Werner carbon fiber paddle and dig holes in the water when trying to cover distance. I'd say I can comfortably cruise between 4 and 5 mph in the OK.

I did visit a few hobie dealers today and neither sales rep came off as having any experience PADDLING a kayak or operating a kayak in rough water which brings me here to ask for your assistance in making up my mind. Neither sales person thought a revo 16 was a good option for Erie. My experience says long skinny boats cover water fastest and track straighter in rough water.

Thanks for any input you experienced hobie anglers might have!

Lon

The Revo16 is a killer big water boat, but it's going to be a wet ride. I have turbo fins on mine, and at near-max weight I can cruise comfortably at about 3.5 knots. If I was really trying to cover water I could sustain over 4 knots, but it would take more work than I'm usually willing to exert.

No first-hand experience in the PA, but the pros and cons of each boat are pretty readily apparent.

Revo: if you break the mirage drive 2 miles from shore, you can paddle in.

PA: if you break the mirage drive two miles from shore you can repair it with all the spare parts and tools you have room to carry, or just pop in a spare.


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The difference really shows up when you are heading directly into wind and chop, Thats were revo 16 makes it a lot easier.

It is a lot tippier than a prowler, not only because its narrow, but peddling is not as as stable as paddling. For some who love the kayak experience will love the revo feel, others may be uneasy with it.

You are talking complete opposite ends of the spectrum so you really need to try before you buy. A PA buyer would not like a revo 16 and a revo buyer is unlikely to like a PA.

If you go revo 16 make sure you get a 2016 model, the 2015 has issues with location of rear wiring plug in tankwell and water ingress. 2016 has been relocated on side rather than bottom in line with other models.

It paddles well, though hand steering is a hindrance. In rudder up mode it is hard to correct any wander with corrective paddle strokes due to long water line and minimal rocker.

Neither! Big body of water, lots of wind. Adventure Island all the way. Get the 2014 right now for 3K new and full warrenty. Slap an Attwood Concentric Seat in for the best kept secret upgrade on a pre Vantage Hobie. Also you can always drop the sail, amas and go single hull mode like the Revo 16. For $500 more than a new Revo 16 it's a no brainer.

I would never consider the PA for big water, AI for far greater range, versatility and safety.

_________________
Mark
Tandem Island- 2013
2 - Sports - 2014

This guy likes the Revo 16 for big water fishing:

http://www.bigwatersedge.com/bwevb/show ... p?p=217439

Check out the link for his mods on an earlier Adventure.

I agree with CRyaker on this one. The AI or TI is the ultimate offshore big water kayaks (fish slayers), you can go 4 times the distance in much less time, and it will handle pretty rough stuff. Do a search for some of yakass's videos, he is out of Australia and regularly catches big game fish like marlins, swordfish, and tuna, all from his adventure. An added bonus is it's a revo 16 (same exact hull) if you remove the AMA's and sail so you can still use it inland and more protected waters.
Don't worry about learning how to sail, that takes all of 30 minutes the first time out, plus you still have the mirage drives as well.
Plus if you want to go far offshore (like out to the game fishing grounds in the keys ) the boat is big enough to add outboards (we live in SW Florida and the keys and have big twin outboards on our TI which is specifically rigged for offshore.
Personally I consider the PA to be and inland water boat, not offshore, and I wouldn't be comfortable in a revo 16 in 2ft chop and more than 1/2 mile from shore. We often do 50-60 milers with our TI.
Adventures are pretty popular off Texas coast, they go out and fish around oil platforms which can be 5-6 miles out.
We don't line fish but we are avid divers and spearfish a lot (which means we get to pick from the menu (lol)). We do it all off our TI with sometimes 3-4 people on board, plus I go out solo a lot.
At least check them out before you buy.
FE

No its not. The old AI was based on the adventure single hull. But the new AI is not the same as revo 16 hull. Current mods make it less suitable in single hull mode. can still be used that way, but not as effectively. Higher ride and reverse nose will make it tippier and harder to maneuver in single hull.

The revo 16 by the way is slightly tippier than the old adventure. Seat raises you about an inch or so. Therefore it goes to say new AI in single hull mode will be tippier again than revo 16.

In all fairness, I think Bob (fusioneng) was referring to my comment for a new 2014 AI (still available), which is the same hull design as the Revo 16, minus/plus a few features. Akas, mast receiver, lowrance ready, vantage chair, rudder.

Yes, the newer Vantage chair AI's are a different design. Haven't seen too many factual tests that show it's stability is worse than a pre-vantage AI in mono hull mode.

_________________
Mark
Tandem Island- 2013
2 - Sports - 2014

I agree w/ the AI advocates -- that's the boat I want.

Buuuut, the Devil's Advocate notes that the AI is a whole lot more boat to store, to transport, to rig ... and then the reverse. I do like my Revo 16's simplicity. I'm in the SF Bay Area and am a traditional kayaker (i.e., I know how to roll and self-rescue) and a windsurfer, so I am pretty comfy in very rough and difficult conditions. The Revo 16 is a pretty remarkable boat, and with the turbo fins is quite fast an powerful, but it is tippier than a trad sea kayak due to the higher seating/center of balance. I nearly rolled last time I went out when I rounded the windward tip of a small island with 2' wind swells and a slightly offing following breeze -- the boat was very, very hard to control (paddle was stowed) as the onshore swells tried turning the boat sideways and the wind helped push the hull around in very short order. This is when I wished the paddle was deployed!

Revo is easily as fast as my 17'-6" Current Designs fiberglass sea kayak, and I can go many miles without getting the least bit tired.

Scurvy:
Eating limes can help with that condition, (just kidding, coolest name on the forum though).

Yea I hear you about storage, we used to have 3 or 4 kayaks in our garage and my wife has to keep her car in the driveway, but somehow there is always room for my roadster in the grarage, I make sure of that (lol).
At one time we had an Oasis, two Revo 13's, and a Tandem Island. Solo the Oasis was a handful and a bit awkward in rough surf and hard to keep going straight in wind. My goto boat for straight up kayaking was the revo 13 (with the kayak sail), very sea worthy with a double ended paddle in your hands (75% of my stability was from my paddles), without the paddles in your hands not so much in rough surf.

However both my wife and I prefer tandem yaks over singles, mostly because of the difference in our abilities, on singles she would typically get tired and I would have to tow her 5 miles back to launch every time out, plus setting up two complete boats is more work for me vs a single tandem, so we eventually gravitated to only tandem boats (that's just our preference), yea we know all tandems are bigger and bulkier.

After buying the TI in 2010 we tend to gravitate to fully rigged sailing with the AMA's and fully rigged (but tha's just us and our lifestyle), and in our case with massive sail sets (complex sailboat), mostly because the keys are really huge, and we mostly go out in big water (salt water). Our TI is specially hardened for offshore with massive sailsets and twin outboards, rigged for great distances in open water pretty much.
I should also mention our main pastimes are diving, snorkeling, and spear fishing, in other words we spend much more time out of the boat in the water vs in the boat, mostly because it's stinking hot here (lol). Everybody has their own thing....

However we do travel a lot and as hard core kayakers, we still love to kayak rivers (mostly up north), and always tandem (because I prefer not to have to tow her back to launch every time (lol)).
Actually when we travel with our Camping trailer, I prefer to throw my full TI rig on the roof, basically making my TI the only car toppable complex sailboat on the planet that I know of, (good luck getting a 450 lb WR 17 on your roof (lol).

We don't mind leaving the motors and rigging at the campsite, then in Kayak mode only exploring quiet rivers, we have even ran several class 2 rapids like the Huron river in Ann Arbor with the TI kayak, then a few days later make a run out to Macinack Island in fully rigged mode, (really big water and not for the part timers and feint of heart (just sayin,,, I won't be doin that one again (lol)).

After a while our TI adventure boat became our go to boat for everything, and the rest just sat in the garage un-used so we eventually sold the rest, a really well fitting name. We even sold our 24 ft Sea Ray.
We find the TI kayak to be the fastest kayak we have owned, and is really good in tandem paddle mode with two paddlers (without the mirage drives and rudder, sails,ama's, etc), anyone who has tried dual paddling an oasis in shallow rivers via the brail method knows what I'm taking about), (Helen Keller school of kayaking with our old oasis IMO).

Obviously we are tandem people, and have no experience on the AI adventure, but just imagining, I see the versatality of the Adventure (AI) to be equal to what we enjoy about our TI (less the seating for 4 of course (lol)). So if your not looking for a family boat like us, my opinion is the AI would be the do everything goto boat. Speaking with real experience here every weekend pretty much over many years now, and we are still going strong, there is no place or conditions (within reason of course) we can't take our Adventure boat out and have a good time, like Hobie says "no wind,,, no problem with an Adventure".
My opinion would be if your looking at a new revo 16 (a great boat), a 2014 AI is all that and then some, for about the same money,(actually I prefer the old style seating and the carry handles because I'm a car topper (mostly because of my bad back, but that's just me).
Just my 2 cents.
FE
PS: we don't fish at all, so I can't comment on the PA, and know little about it.

I have heard it suggested having a small single hand paddle in your hand in these circumstances can work as you have one hand free for rudder and can easily hold a small paddle in the other so you can quickly use it to deploy for correction or bracing as required. Attempting to peddle, steer and hold a full paddle is a clumsy action as you struggle not to dip the paddle holding it one handed, as you put your hand on the steering lever.

All great info. On the tandem topic, I concur 100%: My wife & I own a lovely custom tandem bicycle for the exact same reasons you have for the tandem yak -- it is really nice for 2 people of greatly differing abilities to be able to go out together doing some fun and demanding activity, not get separated, and both get an equivalent workout that results in both people being ready to cash in at the same time!

Another idea coursing thru your comments is that you have successfully arrived at your "quiver of one." After spending many years windsurfing and acquiring a significant quantity of specialized equipment, standing on the beach observing the wind and wave conditions in order to decide which of my vast arsenal would be the right combo, AND observing the other folks do the exact same thing with even larger quivers of gear, I finally got bugged about how much time was wasted in this assessment mode. After that frustration, I cut back my gear to just 2 boards and 4 - 5 sails (windsurfers can't reef their sails, so varying conditions are dealt with by changing the size of the equipment) that were selected for their ability to cover a lot of range and conditions. In other words, I put more of the onus on myself to be a better sailor and make-do with less. It has been a good choice ... for both of us. Congratulations!

I have heard it suggested having a small single hand paddle in your hand in these circumstances can work as you have one hand free for rudder and can easily hold a small paddle in the other so you can quickly use it to deploy for correction or bracing as required. Attempting to peddle, steer and hold a full paddle is a clumsy action as you struggle not to dip the paddle holding it one handed, as you put your hand on the steering lever.[/quote]

Ha! I imagine the idea must have been to carry the canoe paddle in one's mouth, like a pirate. Oh yeah, I had my paddle with me alright ... it just happened to be stowed at that moment when things got squirrelly ... and then it was over. The truth is that I am new to my Revo and still trying to understand it, and yes, keeping that proper kayak paddle in one's paws seems like a good idea if conditions are more intense than flat water.