Return to Hobie.com
Hobie Forums
It is currently Wed Aug 20, 2025 3:44 am

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 43 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Mon Sep 22, 2014 11:51 am 
Offline
Site Admin

Joined: Tue May 27, 2003 12:44 pm
Posts: 15090
Location: Oceanside, California
Good news for Dagger Board lovers!!

The dagger board had not yet been removed from the Adventure hull mold. We reviewed today and made a decision to keep the slot when we convert it to the Revolution 16.

Revolution 16 will have the dagger board slot and the option to purchase a dagger board.

It really is easier for us to keep it and since there is a following that enjoys sailing that hull... we agreed to compromise the consistency of the Revolution family features.

_________________
Matt Miller
Former - Director of Parts and Accessory Sales
Warranty and Technical Support
Hobie Cat USA
(Retired 11/7/2022)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Sep 22, 2014 1:20 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Sun Apr 20, 2008 6:18 am
Posts: 3062
Location: Sarasota,Key West FL
Though I was never a big fan of the old adventure island, and always thought the tandem island was the better design. As a kayak only I always felt the adventure to be as good as my favorite kayak (revo 13) and actually wouldn't mind owning one. Keeping th DB was the right thing to do for the kayak sailers on the revo 16 ( no down side).
It goes to show you guys do listen to the forum, thanks stringy and stobbo.
Bob


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Sep 22, 2014 5:18 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2007 2:25 pm
Posts: 2867
Location: Central Coast NSW Australia
WOO HOO! :D :D :D
That is great news!
Thank you Hobie and thank you Matt for listening and reviewing your decision. 8)
A victory for sailing over marketing and engineering.
Happy days!!!

PS: And thanks to you too Bob!
It was your comments (and Roadrunner's) on mold changes, costs etc. that gave me a glimmer of hope that the decision to drop the DB might be changed at some stage.
I never dreamed though that it would happen so soon :D .
I was planning on a campaign to bring it back.
Even had a slogan ...'The Revolution 16, a somewhat inferior ...though still extraordinary kayak!' :wink:
Doesn't apply now!!!! :D :D :D


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Sep 22, 2014 5:44 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Admiral

Joined: Sun Sep 14, 2008 9:09 pm
Posts: 187
Location: Sayville, NY
Kudo's to Hobie for taking the time to listen and act upon their customers concerns, you just earned another star!

_________________
Bob
Proud member Kayak Fishing Association of New York


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Sep 24, 2014 8:00 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Sun Aug 12, 2007 5:17 pm
Posts: 679
Location: Auckland NZ
YAY - way to go Hobie!!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Sep 24, 2014 9:16 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Deck Hand

Joined: Sun Dec 08, 2013 8:47 pm
Posts: 3
Location: San Diego Ca.
Matt,

That is huge! I love my AI and spend quite a bit of time fishing off of it in "Kayak Mode." I have come to prefer using the dagger board even if I'm only clunking around and fishing. In addition to upwind stability, that big piece of plastic keeps the kayak from doing the rudder lean thing when turning and acts like a pivot point for that long kayak. If I was a wheel at Hobie I'd have to think twice about not adding the slot to the rest of the Revo line.

Thanks for listening!

Scott


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Sep 25, 2014 8:32 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2007 8:12 am
Posts: 441
Location: Florida
Will the Revolution 16 also have the brass inserts molded into the hull like the Adventure kayak? In other words... Will the Revo 16 accept the sailing kit (mast cup, X-bars ect) in the same way the Adventure kayak used to?

I suspect the answer is no.

The lighter 16foot 2014 Adventure kayak would be a better candidate for solo kayaking than the newly revised heavier 2015 Adventure in kayak mode. Makes me want to keep my 2 older AIs mainly because of their excellent dual use capability.
Especially since my TI also makes an excellent solo sailing craft to suit my need for speed.

I guess the next question is will the 2015 AI amas and mast/sail easily just attach to the 2014 & earlier AI?

BTW good decision to keep dagger slot on the Revo 16

mmiller wrote:
Good news for Dagger Board lovers!!

The dagger board had not yet been removed from the Adventure hull mold. We reviewed today and made a decision to keep the slot when we convert it to the Revolution 16.

Revolution 16 will have the dagger board slot and the option to purchase a dagger board.

It really is easier for us to keep it and since there is a following that enjoys sailing that hull... we agreed to compromise the consistency of the Revolution family features.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Sep 25, 2014 9:36 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2007 2:25 pm
Posts: 2867
Location: Central Coast NSW Australia
The Island inserts are gone on the Rev16, as confirmed by Matt here: viewtopic.php?f=11&t=52743
That 'upgrade'(downgrade???) was understandable as Hobie were offering a better alternative with the upgraded AI. Having two different model AI's wouldn't make sense.
The issue with dropping the DB slot was different as it was needed for efficient kayak sailing and Hobie were not offering an alternative. By removing it Hobie were downgrading the best sailing kayak available, which is why I'm so pleased they decided to keep it. :D
FWIW- I'm with Scott who suggested the DB slot should be added to the other Revo's, which would give Hobie a great marketing advantage with the kayak sailing enthusiasts. I seem to remember Roadrunner commenting in his Revo13 review that it was possibly a better sailing kayak than the Adventure.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Sep 26, 2014 4:26 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Sun Apr 20, 2008 6:18 am
Posts: 3062
Location: Sarasota,Key West FL
Stringy:
The revo 13 is also my favorite sailing kayak ( though I sold my last revo last year (budget cuts lol)) and only have my TI anymore). The reason I say that is I felt the standard Hobie kayak sail (~20 sq ft) seems to be size matched for the revo perfectly. However when using the same sail on our oasis I always wanted for more sail, as I couldn't even begin to keep up with my wife in her revo when we were together. Though I have never kayak sailed an adventure kayak with the standard Hobie kayak sail, my impression has always been that the results would be similar to sailing an oasis with the boat being a little large for the standard hobie kayak sail.
The reason I am bringing this up is you guys successfully lobbied with Hobie to keep the dagger board on the revo 16. But I have not heard a peep from any of you formally requesting for a larger 27sq ft kayak sail that would work well on the oasis,revo16, and the pa line of boats (especially the PA 14 and 17), where the Hobie standard kayak sail is too small for those boats.
Alternately they could come out with a furl able wing version of the Hobie kayak sail (like my designs) that could easily propel their larger kayaks. (A 22sq ft wing sail would be equal to a 30 sq ft conventional sail but with much less heeling), I'm just sayin.
Just a suggestion, if nobody asks for it Hobie will be oblivious to the problem.
Maybe you and Stobbo can bring this up at the next Hobie board meeting (lol)
Bob


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Sep 26, 2014 7:27 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Mon Jul 16, 2012 9:27 pm
Posts: 731
fusioneng wrote:
Alternately they could come out with a furl able wing version of the Hobie kayak sail (like my designs) that could easily propel their larger kayaks. (A 22sq ft wing sail would be equal to a 30 sq ft conventional sail but with much less heeling)

Tell me more Bob :!:
Did you ever make a post dedicated to that wingsail design?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Sep 26, 2014 4:53 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Captain

Joined: Sun May 25, 2014 4:35 am
Posts: 130
Location: Singapore
Only 27 sq ft? 35 sq ft is fine and I find myself wishing for more in light breezes :-) C'mon Hobie, you know you could do It! :-)

_________________
Simon


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Sep 26, 2014 5:10 pm 
Offline
Site Admin

Joined: Tue May 27, 2003 12:44 pm
Posts: 15090
Location: Oceanside, California
We started with a larger sail years ago (we are sailors) and went to smaller one quickly because it is better for the majority of less experienced users. Now with the furling feature an XL could work. I would only be concerned about the mount tube strength.

_________________
Matt Miller
Former - Director of Parts and Accessory Sales
Warranty and Technical Support
Hobie Cat USA
(Retired 11/7/2022)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Sep 27, 2014 12:09 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Captain

Joined: Sun May 25, 2014 4:35 am
Posts: 130
Location: Singapore
Thanks for the encoraging reply, Matt :-)

As a 1” telescoping mast could be stiffer and stronger for the same weight, perhaps Hobie could provide such a mast for an XL sail, with a slightly thinner mast tube base. Tighter dimensional control over manufacturing tolerances for the mast base could mean the minimum wall thickness of this new base tube wouldn't be that much less than the current one. I know this because I sliced one up :-) and the wall thickness is quite uneven at mid length (2.5 +/-0.5 mm)

_________________
Simon


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Sep 27, 2014 5:19 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Sun Apr 20, 2008 6:18 am
Posts: 3062
Location: Sarasota,Key West FL
Actually the mast itself is not the problem as that can be easily strengthened by drilling the bungy that goes up the center out then then jamming a fiberglass pole up the center (an old fishing rod or one of those fiberglass driveway/yard reflectors. Or you can slide an aluminum Home Depot painter extension pole over the stock mast (all really cheap options), or you can get fancy and replace the stock mast with a 7/8 dia fiberglass pultrusion rod (they are also fairly inexpensive).
If the sail is too big the problem comes up that the mast holder socket in the hull is not up to the task from the factory. What I did on one of my kayaks was take a 6x6 piece if cutting board with a hole in the center slid it over the mast receiver inside the hull then gobbed a bunch of silicone on the bottom surface and stuck it to the hull bottom. I then did the same up near the top with a smaller cutting board shaped to fit then trapped into the area below the mast receiver at the top of the hull on the inside of the hull. Nothing on the outside of the hull, and everything is removable if you sell the boat. I like using clear silicone because it is all removable and doesn't come loose if you have enough surface area (a 6x6 plate glued to the hull bottom can withstand about 3000 lbs of lateral force, and flexes with the hull if needed), all simple and easy to do even if you can't reach in there easily.
On both our revo's and oasis we were able to add jibs and spinnakers with no difficulty once we re-enforced the mast receivers. However you pretty much have to run a weighted center board or sidekicks to sail with that much sail area. As long as you have roto furlers on everything you can control how much sail to show and use what is needed at that moment. We put many thousand of miles on all of our kayaks over many years with these setup's, it's not worth doing if your not that much into kayak sailing. We sail mostly around south Florida and the keys all year round (we are pretty much out there every weekend, so it was worth it for us.
In my opinion if someone doesn't want to go all the way to an AI or TI, that revo 16 properly equipped with the dagger board would be a great kayak sailer. I still contend though that if you don't keep that mirage drive in and use it all the time you lose 3/4 of the capability of the Hobie kayak as it was carefully designed around the mirage system. If you only want to pure sail just get yourself a sunfish instead, way less effort to pure sail, I like kayaking way more than sailing you can do so much more with kayaks IMO (unless you really like sailing around little buoys in boats designed in the 60's that your not allowed to modify at all, many people do, it's just not for us). I still have yet to see anyone fishing from a sunfish or laser, or any doing anything besides zig zagging back and forth a few hundred yards from shore with no destination in mind. I have only ever seen a couple at the sand bars and islands we like to hang out at. And I don't think I have ever seen one all loaded down with camping gear. I'm just sayin...
Hope this gives you some ideas,obviously we love kayak sailing, and IMO there is nothing out there that even comes close to Hobies stuff.
Bob

Below are some of our old rigs for your viewing enjoyment:
Our old Oasis:
Image

One of our Revo's:
Image

one of our TI's:
Image

One of our TI's setup for kayak sailing (with a 33 sq ft wing sail, (weighted center board required)):
Image

This is our weighted cantilever keel (can be pulled side to side to balance boat, fits in mirage well):
Image

Here is me sitting on the rail of our TI testing the weighted keel (notice I'm wet, I was unable to stand on the rail (balance challenged LOL)):
Image

Personally we have a blast with all our stuff, and use the heck out of everything.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Sep 27, 2014 6:39 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Captain

Joined: Sun May 25, 2014 4:35 am
Posts: 130
Location: Singapore
So how big was the original kayak sail, Matt?

_________________
Simon


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 43 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Jump to:  
© Hobie Cat Company. All rights reserved.
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group