Hey Hobie

Interesting thread. I just bought a new Boston Whaler, 18 ft. and with engine and trailer it was $ 52K. I suspect BW have paid their tooling costs long ago, but their pricing never seems to go down. Other unsinkable boats are a fraction of their price.

The Pangas coming out of Florida, for example, are in the $25K range for a new model, unsinkable boat in the 22-24 ft. range (half the money of a smaller Whaler) with everything BW puts on their boats but the company name.

The only way to vote on this, people, is with your checkbooks. Dont buy overpriced products if a suitable alternative exists.

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Island life in the Devil's Triangle:
http://2gringos.blogspot.com/

And you're leaving out any discussion of the economy of scale.

How many hulls a year does Hobie build? How many hulls a year does Baylinger build? Have you seen a Bayliner built? Do you know the difference between hand laid and chop sprayed?

You're comparing apples and oranges.



For who?!?!? As someone who sees the numbers, I can emphatically tell you that you're wrong. Our margin on a roto boat is not 2 to 3 times that of a glass boat. Period.

Brian C

To refer back to my earlier post on labor costs.

I think were splitting hairs here. An F18, whether it be a Tiger, Cap, Infusion are all pretty much the same cost, or they're bringing about the same price on the market. There's no huge price competition (between manufacturer) on high performance fiberglass boats which are sold to an extremely small percentage of the boating public. And why should there be? Sheer numbers just aren't there. You want a Marstrom A class? You'll pay through the nose.

I'm with ncmbm.

Focus on the next generation of plastic boats...sleeker, faster and SOONER the better.

"They're selling like hotcakes"

I love that line

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hobiejohn at earthlink dot net
Fleet 297

Dog, yes I know the difference between handlaid and chopped glass work. Want to debate which is better? I also understand that at the retail level your margins on plastic vs glass are not that different. I'm talking about raw manufacturing cost vs wholesale pricing. Do you really believe Hobie does not make more profit per unit on plastics vs glass? I'd be very interested in seeing those numbers. Obviously number of units sold or produced has a direct bearing on cost. Thats what this thread is about, creating more product awareness to sell more boats and lower overall costs to the sailors. I don't blame any company for seeking new markets that are profitable, what choice do they have? However, it does seem that more could be done to raise awareness and create an atmosphere for Cat sailing that existed in the late 70's and early 80's. Maybe the socio economic groups we think should be interested in cat sailing simply are not and never will be.
Later

First... every catamaran is actually two boats. There are crossbars and structures that a speed boat does not have. Masts, booms, blocks, rigging, sails, trampolines... it all adds up.

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Matt Miller
Former - Director of Parts and Accessory Sales
Warranty and Technical Support
Hobie Cat USA
(Retired 11/7/2022)

I really don't mean to be to critical of Hobie, I really like the company and like support that I was always able to find when I sailed my 14. I love my new boat but was bummed that I had to switch to a different company to find the boat I was looking for.

I understand that there are alot of little parts that go into the cost of building a catamaran. But it just seems weird that speed boats are so close to the same price even with all the electronics and stuff.

Also, I have been doing some research on other plastic catamarans. I guess there are some out there that are really becoming performance machines. Some of them are rated lower than the 16, so where is Hobie's high speed plastic cat?

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Nacra 5.2 "Elsies"
Hobie 14T, "Blazin" I guess I am keeping her!

Ya, I'm bummed too. You could have been looking forward to a lot of fun racing Hobies with us in 2007. But I understand you got a helluva deal on that boat.

Share the numbers with us on these roto-boats? The H16 is 76.0, right?

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hobiejohn at earthlink dot net
Fleet 297

There's obviously some serious support for Hobie to take the lead in high performance plastic boats. I love the marketing potential. Can think of several campaigns already.

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Island life in the Devil's Triangle:
http://2gringos.blogspot.com/

Well thanks, we'd like at least to be percieved as serious about our passion.

Oh ya, and has everyone voted yet?

http://www.hobiecat.com/community/viewtopic.php?t=5027

Where do you think that number has to be to warrant building a new boat?

Hey, how about a new pole? If there was a plastic Hobie with a rating of X, that weighed X and cost X, would you buy it?

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hobiejohn at earthlink dot net
Fleet 297

Hmm - good point Matt, but a stinkpot is also actually "two boats".

There is the internal boat (the seating, helm, storage, sole, deck and gunwales) and there is the external boat, the hull. The hull is glass over a frame made of a keel, stringers, transom, etc.

Add the motor, which is mass of metal, wires, bearings, fittings, etc - which I imagine is a little more complicated to put together than laying glass in a mold (either roving or chop). Don't forget the exhaust system, water and fuel pumps, etc.

Then add the outdrive (inboard) or lower unit (outboard) motor. Again, a fairly complicated piece of precision fit parts.

Add steering cables, windscreens, helm, shifting cables and throttle cables and control.

Don't forget the Cushions, carpet, padding, etc.

mmmm -

I am not knocking your point Matt and I feel whole-heartedly that Hobie is a quality product. Feel free here to point out that cross-bars and spars are aircraft-grade aluminum extrusions and that blocks, tackle and rigging are stainless and corrosion resisitent materials and that making sails is a craftsmans job, not a mechanics. Oh wait - I just did

But, honestly Matt, I think it can be done for less money, and made accessible to more people, thus selling more units, allowing more economy of scale and boosting the bottom line, just by changing the venue for construction - without sacrificing quality. Hobies (like Macs, or CA skateboard decks) are produced in the most expensive place/state to live in the union - that is a key factor in the bottom line as I pointed out in my first post in this thread. (This probably holds true for the roto-molds too.)

Of course, what the hell do I know - I am still trying to figure out how come my contact lenses cost as much as a 21 speed bicycle... Anyone know the answer to that? Perhaps that is why my optomotrist has a Land Rover, a Crossfire, and a BMW and I drive a 2000 Chevy Venture Van.

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The fact that this windy world is largely covered in water obviously means that man was meant to sail.

So....what are the limitation of roto-molding? Why cant someone come up with a manufacturing-efficient simple design, that is also fast? Two torpedo shaped hulls that get cut in half and bonded to a deck? One mold for two hulls? Cut down the middle, and with a firm, flat, hard deck attached to the top? I think it could be done.
Hobie needs a new designer, thinking a little bit outside the box.

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Island life in the Devil's Triangle:
http://2gringos.blogspot.com/

Hey Gree, Can your 5.2 beat a well sailed 16? Just curious.

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Sail Revolution
Join us on our new FB Page!

Well, I just got it but I am sure that if it was well sailed then yes. For now I think that a skilled team on the 16 could smoke me! But it is rated a few points lower, I think the tacking would be the biggest issue and the boards help it point a little higher.

I am curious why Hobie uses the foam sandwich method, my new Nacra is solid and it seems like it is much simpler and probably cheaper!

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Nacra 5.2 "Elsies"
Hobie 14T, "Blazin" I guess I am keeping her!

If you hit anything with that Nacra you will find out why the foam sandwich is used. Ever see a wrecked corvette? The foam adds stiffness while decreasing weight.

I call BS on that one.
I've got pics of a Nacra 5.2 that collided with a Tiger. The Nacra needed pretty much no repair. The Tiger's bill was well over $600. I'll also put money on a Nacra 20 coming out victorious over a Tiger any day as well if a game of chicken was to be played. Any Tigers out there up for it?

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Trey Brown
www.velocitysailing.com
2006 N20 1017
1998 H16 102698
www.sunjammers.com ftw!