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PostPosted: Sun Mar 08, 2015 9:02 am 
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Location: Sarasota,Key West FL
I live in this area (south Florida and the Keys), and in certain conditions, the gulf can become deadly, almost every year kayakers die around here. As a follower of the Watertribe (I'm a huge fan) here are some of my own observations and personal opinions.

The coast guard is all about safety, and I for one am glad they are out there, but I suspect this event all of a sudden became a huge issue and liability for them having to rescue a dozen Watertribers. I can't imagine deploying one of those coast guard cutters, a C130, and helicopters to an area to perform rescues is cheap (not including all that 50 cal ammo expended (LOL)), if I had to guess the bill for all of the rescues was easily several hundred thousand dollars (especially if and when C-130's, helicopters, and ships are involved). It would really suck to get a bill for all that because you ignored their orders as an event organizer.

Taking these courageous people away from some possible real dire emergency to babysit a sporting event is unfair in my opinion, and anytime there is a need for any rescue, the Coast Guard personnel are putting themselves at risk.

I doubt very much the event will be allowed again without major changes (now this is on the CG's (and probably the states) radar, they will be watching very closely in the future). When it was small it went under the radar, and could be operated in stealth mode skirting the normal norms for such events, now the whole thing has a huge spotlight on it.
My opinion is any organized 'paid' sporting event like this needs to provide their own safety rescue system and not depend on the public systems in place (like the Coast guard) that all the rest of us tax payers pay for (it's grossly unfair to the taxpayers in my opinion). They can state it anyway they like in their guidelines and charter, fact of the matter is, they are using/abusing the public systems in place for boaters/kayakers to cover the safety aspects of a racing event (this is wrong).


Here are some of my observations, don't get me wrong I'm a huge supporter of the Watertribe and have been for a long time.
I walked down the row of boats on Friday, I strongly question the seaworthiness of some of those boats (shouldn't have been there in my opinion).
The reliability of the Watertribes safety systems (like the spot system) are in serious question, half the competitors were oblivious to the race hold and cancellation announcements (just my casual observations), pretty much everyone was left on their own to figure it out...... I'm guessing this is why I suspect the coast guard is up in arms, having to supply safety (by default) to hundreds of racers in what is now a pretty major 'paid' sporting event, if things go wrong (like yesterday) this can be millions of dollars taxpayers have to pay (not fair to the public in my opinion).
Given the observed conditions, the race coordinators in my opinion should not have allowed the race to start (just look at Keiths pictures I would not go out in that, and I'm kind of nuts (lol)), actually I did try to launch (20 miles south), to take videos of the action but couldn't.

All the boats look alike, and it is very difficult to discern who is who, I suggest each competitor be assigned a number, which is prominently displayed at any time (possibly on their back, and on the boat). Then have many more safety pass points where every one is accounted for and checked off a closely maintained list when they pass (independent of the Spot system which has proven to be very un-reliable time and time again). A pass point can be as simple as a boat anchored with a flag system that the competitors must pass. The flag system (green yellow, red) tells the competitors everything is ok (all totally independent of any electronics systems).
My opinion is if someone had died, the civil liability would be massive (regardless of what is stated in their charter, and waivers) (just my opinion)

I also feel strongly that any craft operating offshore needs to be certified to do so especially in a race people are 'paying' to participate in (some of the craft I observed entered in the race were what I consider to be a deadly accident waiting to happen). This would mean restricting the route to inter-coastal waters only for some of the craft, and in areas where this is not possible (like Tampa bay inlet... by far the most dangerous and deadly spot on the gulf coast), all craft need to be closely monitored with safety crews at the ready.....

Just my 2 cents as an outside observer, just because there are so many Hobies adventures involved in this event (I'm a huge supporter of this craft), I thought I would post it here. I'm not involved or associated with the Watertribe at all, just a casual observer/concerned citizen.... I would have felt very badly if people had died.


Bob


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 08, 2015 10:41 am 
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Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2007 6:14 pm
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Location: South Florida
The WaterTribe forum is full of observations and discussions about what to do in the future. http://watertribe.org/forums/

The people who run the WT events are very seasoned boat builders, sailors, kayakers, adventurers. The Everglades Challenge is about small boats, experimental boats, challenges, and adventure. The group will find its way forward. It will likely require more stringent testing of people and boats.

The use of a SPOT device is both for tracking purposes as well as a locating device if serious trouble develops. In addition, all boats are also required to have on board a PLB device (personal EPIRB). These people are very much about safety, but the EC is an adventure race (or a personal challenge.) I don’t think it will stray far from its original credo:

“The purpose of WaterTribe is to encourage the development of boats, equipment, skills, and human athletic performance for safe and efficient coastal cruising using minimal impact human and wind powered watercraft based on kayaks, canoes, and small sailboats” – Chief, February 2000.

If you want to see all the WT “Rules,” “Warnings,” “Required Equipment" go the WT site, http://watertribe.org/, above and click on “Read This.”

I understand that many of the participants are up and moving on down the coast this morning. Of course, some have packed it in. The weather forecast is for relatively mild weather for the next few days. The event is canceled, but not the spirit of most of the participants.

Keith

_________________
2015 AI 2, 2014 Tandem

"Any intelligent fool can make things bigger and more complex ... It takes a touch of genius and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction." A. Einstein

"Less is more" Anon


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 08, 2015 12:37 pm 
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Location: South Florida
Some boats.

Image

Image

Image

Image


Much more to come...

Keith

_________________
2015 AI 2, 2014 Tandem

"Any intelligent fool can make things bigger and more complex ... It takes a touch of genius and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction." A. Einstein

"Less is more" Anon


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 08, 2015 4:40 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jun 01, 2006 1:16 pm
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Location: Colorado
what a disappointment for everyone involved.. good that everyone is safe and thanks to the responders.. Likely at least one person is hugely thankful that they were there, maybe even saved a life. I guess the threat of liability for everyone (including the CG) is going to keep us all extra super safe in the future..

Keith, please keep posting the pictures of the boats!!!! Very cool! I love seeing pictures of the boats!!


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2015 5:49 am 
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Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2007 4:07 am
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Location: Punta Gorda, FL
I have some pics and video from the start but have not gotten them off the cameras yet. iPhones make things a bit easier so I already have these photos.

I arrived at the boat ramp just N of Longboat Pass a bit too late and a good portion of the AI fleet had passed by before I got my little skiff out into the course to intercept Watertribers. These pics are posted in the order I saw the boats. Four and Five were together. Sorry, I'm bad with names and worse with Tribal names.

Hope you all enjoy and can name the Tribers for me.

Who broke a rudder and rescued Karank?

Best,
Speck Tater

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

That guy in the aft seat looks like pics of Chief that I have seen, but not sure.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2015 7:35 am 
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Location: South Florida
Tom Ray wrote:
Hope you all enjoy and can name the Tribers for me.

Best,
Speck Tater

GoldenSun and BabySun—Father and Daughter Team
Image

DieTired & DieTired2—Wife & Husband team
Image

Amabouy and Dockwater
Image

Don't know
Image

LuckyMe and boatbum—Father and Son Team
Image

That guy in the aft seat looks like pics of Chief that I have seen, but not sure. No--see above. Chief has a dune AI 2, but I'm not sure he ever left the beach because of the capsize/search & rescue problems.

Keith

_________________
2015 AI 2, 2014 Tandem

"Any intelligent fool can make things bigger and more complex ... It takes a touch of genius and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction." A. Einstein

"Less is more" Anon


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2015 7:48 am 
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Location: South Florida
Interesting post by WT Chief a couple hours ago:
Quote:
I have gotten a huge number of new membership requests in the last couple of days. Due to the ongoing issues I am not confirming any new members until the current issue is settled.

I apologize for any inconvenience or hassle.

Keith

_________________
2015 AI 2, 2014 Tandem

"Any intelligent fool can make things bigger and more complex ... It takes a touch of genius and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction." A. Einstein

"Less is more" Anon


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2015 10:18 am 
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Location: Punta Gorda, FL
Thanks, Keith.

That boat you didn't know was right in front of LuckyMe and BoatBum. You can see their boat on the right side of the pic.

Someone can probably use that clue to figure out who that is.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2015 10:25 am 
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Location: Sarasota,Key West FL
Here is my walk down the row of boats looking at pretty much all the boats on Friday, of course since my main interest is in class 6 (experimental human powered/electric/hybrid) stuff, I spent the most time hanging around those entrants and listening/talking.
Yes the video is long and somewhat boring, feel free to pause at any boat you want to study further (thats what I do, as I obsorb all the information) everything was shot in ultra high res (monster files LOL), and fast forward thru the boring spots.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e05gGHpUYjg



My original plan was to go meet the group as they came south off Anna Maria and try to video each boat as it passed. That didn't happen because of conditions.


enjoy
Bob


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2015 12:34 pm 
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Joined: Fri Sep 12, 2014 9:43 am
Posts: 13
Location: New Orleans, Louisiana
Keith,

Were there any instances of Hobie Islands having trouble in Tampa Bay this race? I'm preparing for a camping trip from Venice, LA to the Chandeleur Islands this month, and any more information on the boats' (particularly the 2015) would be appreciated for choosing routes, campsites, alternates, etc... Thanks for all your info on the Adventuring thread, by the way.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2015 12:43 pm 
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I've not heard of any serious problems with Islands. A few minor things that had nothing to do with the conditions. There were only 2 AI 2s--Jim Czarnowski of Hobie and Chief's. I don't know if Chief ever got on the water. There was a 2015 Tandem, but I never saw the owner. I plan to post some extremely interesting images before the day is up. Stay tuned.

Keith

_________________
2015 AI 2, 2014 Tandem

"Any intelligent fool can make things bigger and more complex ... It takes a touch of genius and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction." A. Einstein

"Less is more" Anon


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2015 1:53 pm 
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Joined: Sat Aug 09, 2014 12:49 pm
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Location: Bethany, OK
My friend (Tangled Up In Blue) on his red AI had no trouble. I was watching his SPOT page at the start, he averaged 6 MPH or so all the way across the bay and out to the gulf. He posted on FB that he had noticed the CG helicopter buzzing around but wasn't approached by them. He was cruising along nicely through the afternoon with decent wind and weather, then beached at City Island and while there some others stopped and told him the EC had been cancelled.

He's since posted pics from a waterfront restaurant patio in Key Largo, so obviously didn't continue on.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2015 6:03 pm 
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This is a trip report by Chumbucket, a TI operator, of his Challenge experience. It is taken from the WaterTribe forum.

Quote:
Chumbucket wrote:

I can provide a perspective on the outside route to CP1. I departed the beach right at 7am and headed for Passage Key Inlet between Anna Maria Island and Passage Key. I was solo in a Hobie TI and noticed several other Hobie Islands around me as well as some of the bigger cats and a Core sound in front of me.

I will note that I had my cellphone turned off to conserve the battery and stowed to protect it from the salt water; and did not have my VHF turned on for the same reason, and because I didn’t perceive the weather conditions to be bad enough to warrant it (no storms in the area, just brisk wind and some sketchy waves).

None of the boats around me were having any trouble, but they were all multi-hull sailboats (except the Core Sound). I would describe the bay waters as very lumpy with a swell coming from one direction and steeper shorter period waves from another. I had all of my sail out and was sailing very fast, surfing down one wave and into the back of the next. The confused waves would sometimes come from behind and sometimes slap me in the side, and as the wind picked up I started experiencing some broaching motion so I furled to slow down a bit and maintain better control.

As I approached the pass it was easy to see the breakers on each side. It looked pretty knarly at first, but once I lined up with the cha nnel the path out to the Gulf became clear and I took the safe way right up the middle. I did notice one of the Hobie Tis cut the corner behind the breakers and made it through just fine.

Once in the Gulf, the seas actually were a bit better, there was a swell of about 2 (maybe 3) feet with crossing wind driven waves coming in from the port stern quarter. Very few waves were actually breaking. Wind was strong and gusty, but with the sea state more predicable I took out the reef and went flying down the coast at 7-8+ knots for most of the morning and into the afternoon. I even hit some short term speeds of over 10 knots. Pretty exciting on a Hobie TI. Water was warm but the air was cool and even though I was wearing a full body dry suit I started feeling a bit chilly so I started peddling my mirage drive to generate some body heat.

With the fast speeds, the outside fleet separated pretty quickly with the fast big cats quickly pulling away and over the horizon. Soon enough, even the Tis disappeared from view.
Because of the wind and wave action, constant attention was needed at the rudder control, so taking care of, um, personal business and getting food, etc. was a challenge but manageable. It was otherwise pretty uneventful. The most exciting thing that happened to me in the Gulf was coming across a pod of dolphins. Always exciting to see and a good omen I thought. Little did I know of all the drama happening in Tampa Bay.

I did see some Coast Guard Helicopters fly past, thinking that they were just patrolling but also thinking it unusual to see them twice in the span of an hour…and then hoping they were not out to rescue a WaterTriber.

As the day wore on the sun peaked out and I actually got a bit warm. The wind also shifted more easterly and died down quite a bit as did my speed.

I approached Stump Pass in the late afternoon and found it much calmer than last year and it was a fun surf down the outer breakers into the channel. I had to fight an outgoing current and directly into the wind which was the least fun activity of the day, but it was over soon and I rounded the corner toward the ICW and totally calm waters.

I would be remiss if I didn’t confess my screw up. I got greedy and tried to cut a corner to the ICW and guess what happened? I ran aground in the muky mud, and had to get out of the kayak and walk it back to the channel. Then…..I did it again! Geeze…felt like an idiot. I stayed in the channel the rest of the way to Cape Haze Marina and hit the beach at 16:15, beating my time from last year by over two hours! I thought it very strange that I was the only boat on the beach, and decided to dig out my cellphone and check in with the wife before heading through the mangroves to marina.

As soon as I turned on my phone, it lit up and pinged with numerous missed calls and texts. It was only then that I realize what went down. After talking to my wife (who was only mildly worried because she was able to follow me on SPOT page), I made my way to the check point captain to make sure they knew I was off the water, and found a gathering of other sailors scratching their heads as to why the event was cancelled.

All in all, I thought the day was “sporting” in a Hobie TI and never felt out of control or that conditions were dangerous. Of course, this is the perspective of a Hobie TI. I would not have wanted to be in the open Gulf in a regular kayak, but I have no doubt the some of the experienced WaterTribers could have handled it just fine.

Thinking back to those helicopters that flew by me, I wonder if they were checking me out trying to figure out if I was a WaterTriber? Hopefully, they saw that I was properly equipped and in no danger and went on to other problems. Or perhaps I was just too far away for them to send a chase boat to herd me out of the water.

Sometimes ignorance is bliss.


Keith

_________________
2015 AI 2, 2014 Tandem

"Any intelligent fool can make things bigger and more complex ... It takes a touch of genius and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction." A. Einstein

"Less is more" Anon


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2015 6:16 pm 
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Joined: Mon Mar 10, 2014 8:01 am
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I participated this year as a solo TI (tribal name Chumbucket). Last year I finished the EC as a two person team. We were the first boat through the Wilderness Waterway (Whoo Hoo!). Anyway, I took the outside route again this year all the way to Stump Pass. While it was a very sporting day, the Hobie Islands were very well up to the task. There were no less than six Hobie Islands (maybe more) that went outside. I also had a conversation with PenguinMan (Hobie's design guy) at checkpoint 1 and he said his new prototype spinnaker worked great. In fact, he said all he used was the spinnaker when crossing Tampa Bay, and he cut behind the breakers at Santa Maria Isand (Passage Key Inlet) and the chute pulled his AI right across the shallows.

Anyway, I thought I would repost my trip report that I put on the WaterTribe site here for the benefit of fellow Hobie Islanders, so here it is:


I can provide a perspective on the outside route to CP1. I departed the beach right at 7am and headed for Passage Key Inlet between Anna Maria Island and Passage Key. I was solo in a Hobie TI and noticed several other Hobie Islands around me as well as some of the bigger cats and a Core sound in front of me.

I will note that I had my cellphone turned off to conserve the battery and stowed to protect it from the salt water; and did not have my VHF turned on for the same reason, and because I didn’t perceive the weather conditions to be bad enough to warrant it (no storms in the area, just brisk wind and some sketchy waves).

None of the boats around me were having any trouble, but they were all multi-hull sailboats (except the Core Sound). I would describe the bay waters as very lumpy with a swell coming from one direction and steeper shorter period waves from another. I had all of my sail out and was sailing very fast, surfing down one wave and into the back of the next. The confused waves would sometimes come from behind and sometimes slap me in the side, and as the wind picked up I started experiencing some broaching motion so I furled to slow down a bit and maintain better control.

As I approached the pass it was easy to see the breakers on each side. It looked pretty knarly at first, but once I lined up with the channel the path out to the Gulf became clear and I took the safe way right up the middle. I did notice one of the Hobie Tis cut the corner behind the breakers and made it through just fine.

Once in the Gulf, the seas actually were a bit better, there was a swell of about 2 (maybe 3) feet with crossing wind driven waves coming in from the port stern quarter. Very few waves were actually breaking. Wind was strong and gusty, but with the sea state more predicable I took out the reef and went flying down the coast at 7-8+ knots for most of the morning and into the afternoon. I even hit some short term speeds of over 10 knots. Pretty exciting on a Hobie TI. Water was warm but the air was cool and even though I was wearing a full body dry suit I started feeling a bit chilly so I started peddling my mirage drive to generate some body heat.

With the fast speeds, the outside fleet separated pretty quickly with the fast big cats quickly pulling away and over the horizon. Soon enough, even the Tis disappeared from view.

Because of the wind and wave action, constant attention was needed at the rudder control, so taking care of, um, personal business and getting food, etc. was a challenge but manageable. It was otherwise pretty uneventful. The most exciting thing that happened to me in the Gulf was coming across a pod of dolphins. Always exciting to see and a good omen I thought. Little did I know of all the drama happening in Tampa Bay.

I did see some Coast Guard Helicopters fly past, thinking that they were just patrolling but also thinking it unusual to see them twice in the span of an hour…and then hoping they were not out to rescue a WaterTriber.

As the day wore on the sun peaked out and I actually got a bit warm. The wind also shifted more easterly and died down quite a bit as did my speed.

I approached Stump Pass in the late afternoon and found it much calmer than last year and it was a fun surf down the outer breakers into the channel. I had to fight an outgoing current and directly into the wind which was the least fun activity of the day, but it was over soon and I rounded the corner toward the ICW and totally calm waters.

I would be remiss if I didn’t confess my screw up. I got greedy and tried to cut a corner to the ICW and guess what happened? I ran aground in the muky mud, and had to get out of the kayak and walk it back to the channel. Then…..I did it again! Geeze…felt like an idiot. I stayed in the channel the rest of the way to Cape Haze Marina and hit the beach at 16:15, beating my time from last year by over two hours! I thought it very strange that I was the only boat on the beach, and decided to dig out my cellphone and check in with the wife before heading through the mangroves to marina.

As soon as I turned on my phone, it lit up and pinged with numerous missed calls and texts. It was only then that I realize what went down. After talking to my wife (who was only mildly worried because she was able to follow me on SPOT page), I made my way to the check point captain to make sure they knew I was off the water, and found a gathering of other sailors scratching their heads as to why the event was cancelled.

All in all, I thought the day was “sporting” in a Hobie TI and never felt out of control or that conditions were dangerous. Of course, this is the perspective of a Hobie TI. I would not have wanted to be in the open Gulf in a regular kayak, but I have no doubt the some of the experienced WaterTribers could have handled it just fine.

Thinking back to those helicopters that flew by me, I wonder if they were checking me out trying to figure out if I was a WaterTriber? Hopefully, they saw that I was properly equipped and in no danger and went on to other problems. Or perhaps I was just too far away for them to send a chase boat to herd me out of the water.

Sometimes ignorance is bliss.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2015 6:19 pm 
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Joined: Mon Mar 10, 2014 8:01 am
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Oops! Chekia beat me to the punch. Thanks Chekia. I would like to meet you somday!

One other note, if you find the TV news report at CP1, they show the hakas that I made from this forum. They worked great. Really stiffened up the boat for the rough seas.


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