2015 AI Capsize

Wow! What a harrowing event. Sorry about the gear loss Keith.

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2015 Hobie Tandem Island Hibiscus
"Third Normal Form"

• Trampolines
• Hobie cover
• Davis Spar Fly
• Kayakbob's Sprayskirts
• Spine Board Hakas

Thank you for the detailedreport Keith, it can't have been easy, as your emotion is clearly evident, even some days after the event.

I particularly noted the extended effort you had to make tidying things up before you could even consider bringing the AI back upright.

I am going to review how I secure my ground tackle and safety dry bags, as apart from the value of their contents, their usefulness in the actual incident might be critical. The integrity of my front hatch sealing is also going to be checked out...

I am glad that you are still with us, and that you will no doubt gat back out on the water soon.

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Tony Stott
2012 Tandem Island "SIC EM" with Hobie spinnaker

There have just been so much good information that has come out of this. Thanks so much for sharing and starting this thread.

I had never thought, for instance, about the idea that in an upside down scenario, the weight of contents might unseal the front hatch. Now I have to rethink that bungee and maybe look to harden it.

I'll be heading out of Goodland, FL this weekend to feed the mosquitoes, I'll write up a report that I hope is much more boring than Keith's ...

This is why I replace the nylon nut with a stainless clevis pin. I am well aware of the risk of potentially more serious damage to the boat, but I'm also pretty confident that I'm not about to sail into anything, or take on surf I can't conquer. I've had one fail in the past, but luckily it was the windward ama, not the far scarier leeward side. For me the risk of insta-capsize due to a failing shear bolt is greater than the risk of collision or catastrophic landing. Mind you, this is advice I am very hesitant to give out, and I don't raise it with customers unless asked about it (with added caveats). I do, however, recommend to all Island owners to check those bolts regularly (not that it would have helped in this instance) and point out that they are provided 4 spares for a reason.

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Kayak Fishing Specialist: SLH
https://slhobie.com.au

Well Yakass, it was because of your article on your website (when it was existing) I decided to change the nylon to stainless. I bought your arguments right off and still do. But there are maybe other ways to overcome the risks of a collapsed aka/ama.

About the front hatch it is (for me!) very clear that it is not enough to secure it with just bungees.
Allways been a little worried about the size of it and if I could thrust the bungees.

Thank you ALL for the this thread!

I wonder what the situation could have developed to if there was no Nancy-island?
If everything had to be fixed at sea?

br thomas

Some of the pointers I am taking from this discussion:

1. Reduce the chances of amas suddenly coming in by either hardening the brace bolts, or (preferably in my view) adding diagonal brace lines which willl reduce reliance on the bolt in an emergency.
2. Toughen up the front hatch attachment, and to lessen the possibility of water ingress, always pack lighter, bulkier soft drybags in the front hatch, storing heavy items in the cargo area.
3. Add pool noodles inside the hull to add positive buoyancy should #2 above be insufficient.
4. While my 2012 TI has grab handles, my "re-entry loop" will also serve as a handy line for righting a capsized hull.
5. Doubly ansure that items kept on deck are really leashed firmly (in addition to any bungees holding them in place).
6. Keep my VHF and PLB attached to my PFD so I can use them if separated from my TI.
7. Ensure that my PFD will not ride up when I am in the water (leg straps if necessary)

Feel free to add any others!

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Tony Stott
2012 Tandem Island "SIC EM" with Hobie spinnaker

Thomas, I could have fixed everything at sea. I have my tool/parts dry bag in the center hatch. It was another mistake not to do it at sea and try to rescue by dry bag and cooler...assuming I could find them. They may have been floating away for 45 min or more.

Bottom line: Attach all surface stored items with tethers, if you don't want to lose them. The tethers do not have to be so long as to represent endangerment by tangling. Your items should be bungeed on and short tethers added. The bungees keep the items from being thrown into the water, the short tethers keep things with the boat in case they are worked loose from the bungees. I only needed 2 tethers to save my gear/supplies.

Regarding the nylon shear pin, it seems to me that Hobie has to come out with a stronger pin, maybe even stainless steel. This was only the 4th time I had used the boat. One shear pin in 4 sails seems a bit much. Around S FL and the everglades, I sail in a lot of relatively shallow water. Lots of chances to hit a submerged stump or even a tree that has been pull offshore by a storm and stuck in sand or mud. Of course, there are oyster bars to worry about. So, I don't think I'm ready to go the SS route, but, 1 stock nylon pin in for 4 outings--I can't take that either.

Keith

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2015 AI 2, 2014 Tandem

"Any intelligent fool can make things bigger and more complex ... It takes a touch of genius and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction." A. Einstein

"Less is more" Anon

Keith, thanks for taking the time to post a detailed account of your mishap. It's great food for thought as I rig things on my TI.

I like the idea of a grab line between the aka braces for hanging on to the boat and to help righting it in a capsize. I'm going to experiment with this. In the sailing book I'm reading they talk about righting a capsized dinghy using a sheet thrown over the hull to the side you are pulling from.

All the talk about the shear bolts also has me thinking about:
Does the risk and potential danger of an unexpected sudden capsize outweigh the potential damage to the boat of using a stronger bolt in the shear pin location ?
What is the actual damage likely to be if you hit something hard while using a bolt instead of plastic shear pin ?
How often do people actually run into things with the amas hard enough that it would cause damage ?
If the plastic pin can break just from hitting a wave or boat wake with a buried ama, maybe an aluminum bolt or an aluminum bolt with a drilled body would make a more appropriate shear pin ?

Just me thinking out loud, I like to tinker with things.

Chris

Bukaroo, You have a very good questions. I hope someone provides info on those.

I tried breaking the spare nylon bolt holding both ends of the bolts with pliers and it's just bending. It's so flexible I was not able to break it. Is it the bolt head or nuts that breaks. Can someone please clarify this part or provide the link if already answered. Thank you.

I did bent it 20 times continuously non stop and it finally breaks.

I just finished a conversation with my very good friend, Rick Parks. Rick had the occasion to break a shear pin when he ran into a steel channel marker. Basically, here are his thoughts.

"What do you think would happen if you had over 400# of gear and yourself on your AI/AI 2, an SS pin in the aka braces, the current and light wind are moving you at 6-7 mph in the Indian Key Pass out of Everglades City, you lost sight of a heavy steel channel marker behind your sail, and you wacked your aka into that post. What do you think would happen if you had an SS pin in your aka brace?"

Most of that happened to Rick. Rick is sharp. This is not something that happened because he was careless. Something to think about. As it was, Rick had a nylon shear pin in, it broke, his boat stayed upright, we pulled into a small beach 50 yds ahead, put a new pin in, and were on our way in a few minutes. The only damage? A few scratches on his aka due to barnacles on the post.

Rick and I did muse about what might have happened with an SS pin in the aka brace. We thought that with the boat (140#) plus him and his food & gear (350#), that package represented about 490# moving at 6-7 mph when he collided with that post. The collision at a minimum would have bent the aka(s) seriously. It may have ripped the xbar fitting out of the boat. If that happened, you are looking at buying a new hull. To add a little frosting to the whole bit, remember my famous quote: "Don't kid yourselves, sharks are everywhere in the Everglades."

I just realized you could test the above scenario. Place an aka flat in you driveway. Somehow maneuver a 450# load onto a short portion of a 2x8 board balanced on blocks about 8-10" above your aka. With a friend, pull the blocks out from under the 450# load permitting it to drop down onto your aka. Mind you, I have not done this test. Please let us know the results if you try it. Thanks!

@Nap--Nap, my shear pin, the one that failed, seemed to be cut in half.

Keith

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2015 AI 2, 2014 Tandem

"Any intelligent fool can make things bigger and more complex ... It takes a touch of genius and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction." A. Einstein

"Less is more" Anon

I believe the logic is overwhelming to leave the standard "sacrificial" plastic brace bolt alone, and instead add diagonal lines, which serve multiple purposes:-

Prevent sudden folding in of an ama, the most likely cause of a capsize.
Assist in emsuring that no aka becomes disengaged from the crossbar.
Provide additional lines to assist in righting an upturned Island.

I think the above rather sobering suggestions as to what could happen if steel bolts are used, are enough to dissuade me from adding them.

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Tony Stott
2012 Tandem Island "SIC EM" with Hobie spinnaker

I think I'm now ok using the existing nylon bolt and just replace it periodically as it's not that expensive anyways just for my peace of mind. Bending the spare with plier really increased my confidence level that it will have to take a lot of abuse before it breaks. So I just need to religiously comply with the boat specs that this boat should not be used above ?? Knots. And also implement some mods as additional support. Please show us with pictures any mods related to this topic. Thanks to all the info. Huge help to beginners like me.

I agree that adding stays is a better solution in theory, though it would only work for me on the port side where I have a tramp fitted. I need to be able to fold the starboard ama so I can lift fish aboard, so the stainless clevis pin/bolt is a better work around for me.

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Kayak Fishing Specialist: SLH
https://slhobie.com.au

I just ordered some spares from Austin Kayak and thought others might have use for the Hobie part numbers. ACK had everything in stock but not everything listed is shown on their website. I called customer service.

steering knob 88991355
Rudder Pin 88991101
Aka Shear bolt 8032081 - these have a hole drilled for the sst ring
8052081 nut for shear bolt - the black nuts on the plastic aka shear pin
Bow/Stern Handle 76050001 - so I can lift the boat with two hands instead of one

I'll defer to greater experience and stick with the plastic shear bolts unless Hobie upgrades them to something stronger. I'm going to rig the safety lines to prevent ama folding for sure. Someone previously mentioned trying to use cleated lines for this and I thought it might be helpful for folks that need to fold one while fishing. Maybe a turning block at the bow or forward aka cross brace and a cleat somewhere to secure the line ?

I know that folks have used alternate pinning methods for rudder and aka shear pins rather than the split rings. One of my favorite suggestions is Tony Stott's Ty-wrap one. Easy to use, plentiful and cheap.
I noticed that 12 AWG solid copper wire when stripped to the bare wire fits in the rudder pin hole. A couple of inches of it stuck through the hole then bent down 90 degrees might work well too and you can install it with one hand.

Chris