TI aka failures, amas collapsing, etc.

Sorry... I can not get wrapped up in your doom and gloom view of this issue. Especially in that many in these threads have acknowledged never having had the issue themselves.

I have stated that we are looking at the aka locks to consider their consistency in locking. Until we can understand why some people are struggling with the standard features, we can not recommend reasonable changes to a sailor's processes or to our designs. I do not agree with adding cross lines as a back up to brace release for the average user... Braces are designed to release under abnormal loads as are rudder pins. Adding cross lines has another set of possible concerns in my mind.

Those that are pushing these products harder can consider what they wish to make them feel more comfortable... that is a personal choice. To sail in conditions that are considered dangerous by your local Coast Guard or authorities is also a personal choice (Check with your local officials for small craft advisory levels in your waterway). This does not mean that Hobie Cat is in any way compelled to suggest these presented ideas to the entire ownership of our products. We will test further (remember we have been sailing these in challenging conditions for many, many years... EC Challenge and others included) and determine what if anything we need to do.

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Matt Miller
Former - Director of Parts and Accessory Sales
Warranty and Technical Support
Hobie Cat USA
(Retired 11/7/2022)

Well said Matt! Sadly, the recent spate of posts give the impression that Islands are some sort of death trap.

Those of us who might "push the envelope" in terms of sailing offshore solo, might decide to "harden up" their vessel, but realistically, I and countless others simply are not experiencing catastrophic failures, and have every confidence in Hobie's product as designed.

In my opinion, hysterical references to multiple deaths in relation to a car manufacturer are not helpful.

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Tony Stott
2012 Tandem Island "SIC EM" with Hobie spinnaker

I have full confidence in my TI and in Hobie.

Sent from my SPH-L720T using Tapatalk

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2015 Hobie Tandem Island Hibiscus
"Third Normal Form"

• Trampolines
• Hobie cover
• Davis Spar Fly
• Kayakbob's Sprayskirts
• Spine Board Hakas

I also agree...... re: Adventure and Tandem Island dependability, safety, etc. The same holds true for Hobie 14's and 16's. Are they perfect ? Of course not, but neither is anything of a mechanical nature. Everything is, at best, a compromise.

This forum, like other forums whether they be guns, motorcycles, snowmobiles, etc, appeal to "McGiver" types a.k.a. eternal tinkerers, many of whom are never satisfied. Generally they bring a wealth of ideas and many different points of view......a good thing. Unfortunately, some would also be the first to complain when Hobie raised TI and Adventure pricing 25% to incorporate space age materials, exotic sails, etc., etc.

If you prefer WindRider performance, buy one. If you want Corvette performance and handling, don't try to turn a Chevy Nova into one. Buy what suits your specific needs and desires.

My motorcycle can easily achieve in excess of 100,000 trouble free miles. But if you read their forum as a new or non-owner you might believe it is overwhelmed with flaws, maintenance problems, etc.

bill

I used 1/8" Nylon rope about 18" long (longer on front attachment) and attach to a Knot bone fitting (Nite Ize KCL3-01-4R7 Knot Bone Cord Lock, 4-Pack)
for backup to the Aka bar attachment. I put one at all 4 locations. Works great for peace of mind!

The air like the sea is terribly unforgiving of any incapacity or NEGLECT.

I do agree, it is not attention-seeking or alarmist to point to a potentially dangerous scenario.

One thing though, I don't think Hobie is doing nothing as Matt says it's a recognised issue but a difficult one to replicate and therefore remedy.

We must look at what can be done in the meantime for owners who don't know about the issue and therefore cant apply the safety measures.

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Fair Skies, Max.

I have a 2014 TI that I bought in August 2014. I'm one of the ones who had an aka-come-loose problem while heading offshore in Key Largo for a dive trip last December. It was a bit sporty out there for a bit, and our dive trip was done for. Here are my basic comments on this issue based on my experience:

- It was a bit scary but we made it back OK, thanks to some straps and parachute cord.

- Hobie (via my dealer) replaced a damaged front aka crossbar with no questions.

- I initially lost confidence in the TI and especially in the aka locking mechanism. I still don't trust it not to come out.

- I LOVE my TI. Having owned everything from deep V cabin cruisers to fishing boats to kayaks, I know that anytime you take a boat away from the protection of a cove, they are all life-threatening. All boats try to kill their passengers and crew. I'm not saying that a gross boat design malfeasance is ever acceptable, I just don't think that's the case with my TI. Plastic boats and big water = handle with care.

- The fix to regain confidence in my akas was easy. I came up with what many consider to be an overly-engineered cargo strap solution, but it makes me feel good; after seeing the damage to my front crossbar, I didn't want my aka coming out even a little. Others, as you can read, have come up with several easier and more elegant solutions.

- I believe that Hobie could put this issue to rest fairly easily, and it reads like they are looking into it. I personally believe this effort should be seen as a safety enhancement and not necessarily as correcting a design flaw. I think what most of us want is a positive and confident indication that our akas are locked in place and will remain so during our ride.

- I have no issues with the sheer bolt design in the aka brace and understand that this could result in ama collapse and capsize. That is preferable to the alternatives in the case of overstress. We modify this built-in weak point at our own risk.

Just my 2 cents that probably threads the philosophical middle ground somewhere.

"I know that anytime you take a boat away from the protection of a cove, they are all life-threatening. All boats try to kill their passengers and crew"

This is the sensible and not at all attention-seeking attitude one should take with them when going out of sight on the open water, some people think flying is potentially dangerous but ocean boating is comparatively safe.

"Prepare for the worst and expect the best", is what my Instructor taught me and applies especially to this situation.

Only time will resolve this issue and we all hope that none of the unaware AI owners experience distress because of it in the meantime.

The last failure has not occurred, the story has not ended yet.

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Fair Skies, Max.

This is from somebody who has yet to sail their new 2015 AI...

But, having said that, and having owned a number of catamarans and one outrigger canoe, I would opine that anybody who owns an AI should practice capsize and recovery in deep water a couple of times per year. Start in waist-deep: work out to chest-deep; and then, when you are reasonably sure you have the re-mount down pat, go for over-your-head depth...... and then try it in heavy air and heavy chop when you have somebody standing by to assist if all does not go as well as on flat water....

I would also practice sailing my AI with both amas folded in - or even with no amas. Dunno if the second one is possible as a practical matter because of the tipping force of the mast, but with small enough sail area I would expect to be able to nurse my TI back to the beach with both amas folded.

Bottom Line: If I cannot become totally comfortable with capsize and recovery, I need to get rid of the boat and move on to something that allows me that comfort.

Ditto a broken rudder. Using the paddle as a steering paddle or steering oar and all that.....

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2015 AI in "Dune" - "The Grey Pig"
2017 Trailex 450 Trailer
Pre-September 2015 cradles
(anybody want to buy a slightly-used AI SpinKit?)
eMail: [email protected]

I am working up a launch checklist for my AI.

One of the steps on it is to, after inserting an aka, yank *hard* on it to see if it comes loose.

_________________
2015 AI in "Dune" - "The Grey Pig"
2017 Trailex 450 Trailer
Pre-September 2015 cradles
(anybody want to buy a slightly-used AI SpinKit?)
eMail: [email protected]