Replace Front Aka Tube/Xbar: Has Anybody Actually Done It?

2015/AI-2 damaged in shipment.

Today the new front Xbar arrived and it needs to be swapped in for the damaged one.

I've got all the screws that secure the top of the mast receiver to the upper part of the hull out and am getting a little worried....... These screws look like they were self-tapping onto plain old polyethelene - no brass inserts or anything - and some of them come out with a good bit of the polyethelene in the threads..... And three of them are shorter and countersunk while the rest are longer pan-head with washers - no apparent reason for the diff.

Because of the removed polyethelene, I'm thinking "Loose Fit" or partially-stripped threads at replacement time.

Tomorrow I'll shop for the super-extra-long #3 Phillips driver that is needed to unscrew the screws at the bottom of the mast receiver..... hoping that they are screwed into something more robust.


The Bottom Line: .... Has anybody been here? .... Caveats? .... Mistakes to be made?


When all this is over, I think I'm going to call the retailer and tell them that, as nice as it was that they replaced the damaged part, it would be *really* nice if they would look up the book price for this replacement in their shop and deduct that from my purchase cost..... -)

_________________
2015 AI in "Dune" - "The Grey Pig"
2017 Trailex 450 Trailer
Pre-September 2015 cradles
(anybody want to buy a slightly-used AI SpinKit?)
eMail: [email protected]

Removing the receiver? Not required if replacing the crossbar.

There is a backing ring that the receiver screws go into. The poly is simply sandwiched between the top of the receiver and the backing ring inside the hull. Silicone could be added if you have a leak concern.

To remove the crossbar:

4 bolts holding the crossbar at the outer ends.

2 bolts at the center under a couple plastic caps that attach the crossbar to the receiver.

Off it comes.

_________________
Matt Miller
Former - Director of Parts and Accessory Sales
Warranty and Technical Support
Hobie Cat USA
(Retired 11/7/2022)

Those are what I am tripping over......At their bottom ends they are screwed into nylon-locking hex nuts.......But those hex nuts seem to be inaccessable to a wrench when the mast receiver is in place.

So I am missing something......... but what ?

Any chance there is a written procedure with photos for this task?

_________________
2015 AI in "Dune" - "The Grey Pig"
2017 Trailex 450 Trailer
Pre-September 2015 cradles
(anybody want to buy a slightly-used AI SpinKit?)
eMail: [email protected]

You should only have to remove the plastic covers on the X-bar, stick an allen wrench into the hole and unscrew the two bolts, the threads will be a little tight because the screws have locktite on them (when replacing the cross bar with the new one you will need blue locktite on all those screws).
The nuts under the mast reciever are placed in slots so there is no need for any wrenches for the nuts. When you replace the cross bar an aluminum spacer (3/4"x1"x4") is in there, if the thru holes thru the spacer are egg shaped and loose on the screws, It's probably a good idea to replace that spacer (It's kind of a critical component).
Don't take the mast reciever bucket out, It's a super pain in the butt to get back in and adjusted properly (getting those V bars adjusted properly can be a pain), and all totally unneccessary if tour just replacing the X-bar (most of us with older boats have replaced those x-bars as new updated designs became available, so most of us have done it.
Just make sure everything is tight and locktited when done (all the bolts your messing with take the most structural load on the boat and need to be checked periodically.

One more little detail if you are also transferring the Harkin cleats to the new X-bar don't get the screws mixed up, some screws are shorter to clear the AKA bars when the AKA's are inserted. Put the furling cleat back in the same position it was in when it came from factory (moving it to other positions can have unforseen concequences) (don't over tighten, they are easy to strip).
Hope this helps
Bob

I think something is stripped in there then. One bolt came right out, no problem - in fact, it was suspiciously easy to rotate from the very beginning.

The other bolt, however, simply rotates the hex nut...... I can see part of the hex nut so I know it is rotating.

Gonna try to get some very thin needle-nose pliers in there and maybe I can jam the bolt enough to get the bolt to un-screw.

I'm starting to feel like Joe Btfsplk (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Btfsplk)

_________________
2015 AI in "Dune" - "The Grey Pig"
2017 Trailex 450 Trailer
Pre-September 2015 cradles
(anybody want to buy a slightly-used AI SpinKit?)
eMail: [email protected]

Pete, your nearest dealer should be doing this (even if you bought your TI from another)

_________________
Tony Stott
2012 Tandem Island "SIC EM" with Hobie spinnaker

Yeah, the thought crossed my mind..... but I don't have the brass to go to the guy after buying from somebody else.

But if I can't get support from Hobie, that may be what I have to do.... but, based on the speed with things have moved so far with the Xbar replacement, I would expect to lose use of the boat until next spring.

Also, now that this part turns out to be stripped, I can imagine somebody saying it's all on me from now on.... Incompetent rotation of the bolt and all that....

_________________
2015 AI in "Dune" - "The Grey Pig"
2017 Trailex 450 Trailer
Pre-September 2015 cradles
(anybody want to buy a slightly-used AI SpinKit?)
eMail: [email protected]

Tried a few different things and, so far, it's not happening.

If I decide to remove the mast receiver bucket, is it as simple as getting a #3 Phillips to those bolts at the bottom?

And what is the issue with replacing the bucket? ..... Shouldn't the V-bar adjustment still be correct? ..... I'm guessing the answer is "No" and there's even ore that I am clueless about.

OTOH, if whatever it is that is stripped and allowing the nut to rotate is integral to the mast bucket assembly I am guessing that I need a replacement for the mast bucket assembly too in order to be 100% correct and leave a situation where all this has to be done again if/when the front Xbar has to be replaced at some future date.

_________________
2015 AI in "Dune" - "The Grey Pig"
2017 Trailex 450 Trailer
Pre-September 2015 cradles
(anybody want to buy a slightly-used AI SpinKit?)
eMail: [email protected]

There are Allen studs with nuts holding the V Frame in place. Just remove the nuts. The V Frame is expanded to fit within the space. Not so much as to expand the hull.

This procedure is very rarely required. I suspect that you can reassemble using the existing mast receiver and never have to remove that bolt again.

Labor cost: There is no documentation, instruction sheet. There is no standard labor for working on Kayaks or sailboats like in the automotive industry.

Note on freight damage: If you had freight damage due to shipping from the retailer to you... that is normally handled between you and the carrier that delivered the product. "If" the damage was noted on the receiving bill of lading. Always best to buy local and take delivery of an assembled and inspected product.

_________________
Matt Miller
Former - Director of Parts and Accessory Sales
Warranty and Technical Support
Hobie Cat USA
(Retired 11/7/2022)

We were just trying to help with some obvious stuff, I had that happen on one of mine and used a small vice grip to get the nut off (it was the locktite on mine that was a little too tenacious). When you re-assemble just use the same vice grips, being stripped doesn't affect the integrity of the joint, it's just not convienent (not worth replacing the mast reciever, it will still work fine). Honestly you will likely never touch any of it again during the life of the boat (it's very unusual what you are doing, and normally not done by end users, all the dealers know this stuff (thats their job, not ours), just take the darn thing to the dealer ( It's all should be paid for by the freight company), this way you know it was done correctly, some of the stuff your messing with are major structural components of the boat, if done incorrectly that would be bad, let Hobie deal with it, they only work thru their dealers (not direct with anyone) FYI.
When done the Freight company gets the bill hopefully (they should)
FE

Now that I am looking at top outside plate of the mast receiver (viz: https://picasaweb.google.com/1081497986 ... 1765365458), it looks to me like the piece that prevents wrench access to the problem nut is just more plastic and not apparently structural - although I have to think that the designers had a good and sufficient reason to block wrench access....

That being said, I have to wonder if a little judicious application of a Dremel tool would expose the nut to a wrench without creating any structural compromise.

I would think it unreasonable to expect anybody speaking as a rep of Hobie to comment on that approach - but maybe FusionEng could bring his engineering expertise and AI/TI experience to bear.

That has always been my own preference. But Hobie's distribution system seems to make it difficult for dealers to get product... it's like they have to order direct from Hobie so each dealer has to accurately assess their sales for the coming year.

Bottom line for me was that I would have had to wait until spring of 2016 to get a boat..... although it looks like it's at least remotely possible that may be the case anyhow..... -)

_________________
2015 AI in "Dune" - "The Grey Pig"
2017 Trailex 450 Trailer
Pre-September 2015 cradles
(anybody want to buy a slightly-used AI SpinKit?)
eMail: [email protected]

Hopefully I have not messed with any of those yet...... Only thing I have done so far is remove the four saddle bolts and one of the two remaining bolts from the Xbar and also removed the wood screws that held the inside backing ring - since replaced transparently and with no problems..... my observation about the polyethelene in the threads being moot in light of the fact that the screws simply pass through the hull's poly and actually anchor into the long receptacles in the backing plate.

Your comments and mMiller's comments have made it clear to me now that I do not want to mess with the mast receiver.

I can't picture how you got vice grips around one of those problem nuts.....But there's still the Dremel solution (ref the previous post) and/or more specifics on how you got the small vice grip on the problem nut.

_________________
2015 AI in "Dune" - "The Grey Pig"
2017 Trailex 450 Trailer
Pre-September 2015 cradles
(anybody want to buy a slightly-used AI SpinKit?)
eMail: [email protected]

Pete:
Yea just dremel out enogh plastic so you can clamp on with tiny vice grips, seriously you will never be touching it again, don't worry about removing a little plastic, it has nothing to do with the strength. The hex slots are only in there for ease of assembly.
Bob

Exactly, precisely what I was hoping to hear.

Thanks!!

_________________
2015 AI in "Dune" - "The Grey Pig"
2017 Trailex 450 Trailer
Pre-September 2015 cradles
(anybody want to buy a slightly-used AI SpinKit?)
eMail: [email protected]

That brings to mind a tricky aspect of Hobie's packing.

The amas, of course, came in a cardboard box along with akas and other stuff.

No problem there: both ends of the box were stoven in bigtime - as if somebody had driven the business end of a fork lift into one end of the box, circled around, and did the same thing to the other end:
https://picasaweb.google.com/1081497986 ... 9622459570
https://picasaweb.google.com/1081497986 ... 7491248322

That was my cue to note "Damage" on the bill of lading, take pix of the box in the truck, and so-forth.

That might have saved the day for me - even though, ironically, there was zero damage to the amas or akas (except for a few smudges on each ama) because, by the time I discovered the real damage, the bill of lading was long gone.

The tricky aspect is that Hobie does not ship the main hull in a box - just swathed in bubble wrap and plastic sheeting.
The bubble wrap transmits hits to the hull, but bounces back - so the hull can be abused with little or no visual evidence of said abuse. ..... i.e. No torn cardboard.

I inspected the packed main hull rather closely after seeing the damage to the ama box and it really looked almost perfect save a couple of tears in the outer plastic wrap - which I think most people would call unreasonable grounds for refusing a shipment based on "damage"
https://picasaweb.google.com/1081497986 ... 8517626514
https://picasaweb.google.com/1081497986 ... 5134385042

But it was the main hull that seemed to have taken the most heinous hits....... I don't know what kind of blow it takes to deform an Xbar, but whatever the Xbars are made out of seems to be pretty tough stuff.......

Also, the deformation was subtle. Not totally caved in, just enough out-of-round that the aka could not be inserted......

Actually, I did no even notice it until the next day when I tried to insert an aka and, even then, I had to study it for awhile: https://picasaweb.google.com/1081497986 ... 2377601778, although once that soft plastic collar was removed it was pretty obvious even to me: https://picasaweb.google.com/1081497986 ... 1084602578.

There was also a gash-type deformation on the near the stern of the main hull's bottom...... Again, I can't imagine what kind of force or how sharp an instrument was needed to inflict that - and it was nowhere near the tears in the plastic: https://picasaweb.google.com/1081497986 ... 8535284418

The Bottom Line:
Thank goodness for the guy who had it in for the ama box ! ..... I should send him a Thank-You card or something........ -)

The way Hobie packs the main hull, it is not realistic to expect a recipient to determine whether-or-not damage has been inflicted by visual inspection of the package.


For Potential Buyers Reading This Thread:
I would reiterate the excellent advice of Those Who Know: "Buy local if possible".

I chose to disregard that advice for reasons of my own - and I went into this with my eyes wide open.
But I am coming out of it with further assurance that advice is well-founded..... -)

_________________
2015 AI in "Dune" - "The Grey Pig"
2017 Trailex 450 Trailer
Pre-September 2015 cradles
(anybody want to buy a slightly-used AI SpinKit?)
eMail: [email protected]