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 Post subject: Re: TI Jib
PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2016 7:21 am 
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Joined: Mon Oct 13, 2014 5:45 am
Posts: 36
Location: Japan
chadbach wrote:
I've been keeping the halyard pretty snug and the sail furls pretty good, my problem is getting it to UN-furl. Have you experienced any issues in getting the sail to come out? I'm not really sure what's snagging it. It worked fine during my driveway tests, but on the water I had to give it a good shake and pull on the jib sheet pretty hard to get the sail to un-furl. Maybe halyard tension also affects un-furling?


Hmmm... I have not experienced problems furling or un-furling, unless I have had the jib really loose in very light winds and forget to tighten it up before pulling in or letting out the jib. A gentle pull on the line, the wind catches the jib and out she goes. Halyard tension definitely affects furling and unfurling in the same way. So if the halyard is loose, on my boat it will take a tug - I think demonstrated somewhere on the video above.

As a newbie at this, I am a little embarrassed with the videos, especially as things are still changing for me. There are a lot of 'I should have...' moments. Once I have something I like that is working the way I want it, I may do another. For now, I am hoping people can learn mostly from my mistakes.

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Enjoying a 2012 TI
w/ hakas, a stainless steel
mast topper & furling jib


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 Post subject: Re: TI Jib
PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2016 7:27 am 
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Joined: Sun Apr 20, 2008 6:18 am
Posts: 3062
Location: Sarasota,Key West FL
Greg:
I think that all boils down to Hobies excellent selection of a code zero type spinnaker (kinda like a screacher) vs a big ole G2 parachute type spin (like my original spin was (bad choice of sail type on my part). No it isn't quite as fast downwind as a G2, but is still usable on a reach (almost like a big genoa), if set properly. Basically way more versatile over what I had. Really a good design in my opinion, well except for the line tangling issues, but I'm confident all you guys using them now will figure something rock solid out very soon.
In my own experience no matter what jib I have (and I have had many over the last 6 yrs), if your expecting adding a jib is going to add great speed on a reach, I've always been dissapointed in that. The mast system and AMA's can only hold so much side load (heeling moment) so adding the jib means you just have to furl in sooner or risk capsize with only incremental gain in speed (maybe 1-2 mph). The bigger the jib the worse it gets (that darn heeling moment (lol)).
So all my jibs and designs have one specific purpose above all others, I design them to be able to point higher into the wind, which in my opinion is the achilles heel of these boats, pointiong 45-50 degrees up wind is just flat unnacceptable to me, as from my own experience on my own TI in stock form, possibly more because I really suck as a sailer and have little patience when going 2mph and peddling like crazy every weekend in the hot Florida sun ( that dictates what I do to my boat pretty much). Having a spinnaker is a bonus for downwind, but it's pointless to have to pound and tack for 5 hrs, just to enjoy 15 minutes of bliss coming home on the spinnaker. I used to do that every single weekend for literally years until I figured out that whatever you design, the boat had better be just as capable upwind as it is downwind, because in my case I'm sailing upwind 90% of the time. So several years ago all my effort focused on that goal (upwind sailing only, everything else is just a bonus. Of course I'm there now, but boy was it hard, and took many years to figure out. Now I'm finally happy with what I have.
I think the revelation for me was no matter what jib you add (ie... Large or small), it doesn't transform the boat into an H16 or a laser 2, yea of course it does help a little in really light winds. So I focussed all my efforts on what I felt to be the most important issue (pointing ability), and has been the focus of all my efforts since. I suspect this is the main reason most have given up on the jibs (wrongly thinking by adding a jib turns the boat into an H16, it doesn't)

FE


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 Post subject: Re: TI Jib
PostPosted: Sun Aug 07, 2016 12:16 pm 
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Joined: Sat Oct 04, 2014 1:30 pm
Posts: 984
Location: Benicia, CA
tpdavis473 wrote:
HI Robin,

IN a normal crosscut sail, you are stitching full panels and you broadseam each panel as it approaches the luff.

In the video, since there are no panels, you have to create a spot to broadseam. The seams should look like inverted golf tees where it gets wider as it approaches the luff.

For these sails, you should do a broadseam measuring up from the tack about every 30"...Mark the spot and measure the distance from that spot to the leach (measuring parallel to the foot)--just for an example let's say it is 72". Take how many inches that distance is and divide by 3 (72 divided by 3 is 24)...that distance is where you cut from the luff spot toward the leach (ie, cut from the luff toward the leach 24" (make the cut parallel to the foot)). That will be the position of maximum camber. Now you are going to sew the slit back together. How much overlap will you want? That depends on how firm the fabric is. Stretchy fabric needs less broadseaming. Let's use 12:1 for mylar (no stretch), could go up to 30:1 for tarp. so we want 2" at the end to be sewn together at the luff end of our slit. Since we want it to look like a golf T, we'll save half (1") for the last quarter distance (6"). So, start from the end of the slit and move the fabric together 1/4" for the first 6". Move the fabric together total of 1/2" at the 12" spot. At the 18" spot you will have the fabric together by 1". The last six inches will move it together the remaining 1".
(when you get toward the top of the sail, the seams are really short, so don't bother).

Clear as mud, right? I learned some of the art of sailmaking from Sailrite -- they used to have a series of books. I don't bother with software because then someone else is making decisions about where to put the camber and how much. I would be willing to walk you through it once you get the material you need. We could skype while you are in the throes.


I apologize, I re-looked up the broadseaming guides from the book (Jibsails, design and construction by James Lowell Grant), Mylar is 1/2 inch for 14 inches (or 1 to 28) not the 12:1 I said above). Since I don't make crosscut sails often anymore (I like radial head designs), I've forgotten most of what I need to know about broadseaming. You can still get the books I bought way back when but they are pricey and outdated given today's materials, but it does provide a good grounding in sailmaking techniques https://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B003OXVQLC

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SeaRail 19
Triak
BMW C600
Formerly Getaway with Custom Spinnakers
Formerly raced F24 Mk II


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