T.I. AMAS on an A.I. - any issues doing this?

Sounds good. I just hated to see you make all the changes until you saw what the no mods ride would be like.

_________________
Greg

2016 AI - Spinn & Jib

“Out of sight of land the sailor feels safe. It is the beach that worries him.”
– Charles G. Davis

Mike, Took this picture this weekend. Here is my papaya AI with TI amas (AI akas) next to a standard dune AI. This picture shows how little if any toe-in there is.

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Greg

2016 AI - Spinn & Jib

“Out of sight of land the sailor feels safe. It is the beach that worries him.”
– Charles G. Davis

Thanks Greg, looks good. I'm sure they'll be fine as-is, but I do like my forward-planning

Cheers,

Mike.

We found that the "toe in" mis not a big deal. Only concern I would have is if the stock AI Akas could rub holes/tear the Ama plastic receivers over time, due to a misfit or rough conditions.

In general, anything that wobbles on a sailboat is a bad thing. I recommend filling the void.

Whatever you do, keep an eye on the Ama alignment with the hull/waterline. So they don't slope lower at the bow.

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The Wind Is Your Friend...

For those interested - here's what the front and rear Aka extensions look like.

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The Wind Is Your Friend...

Thanks Nohuhu. Will check for wear tonight!

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Greg

2016 AI - Spinn & Jib

“Out of sight of land the sailor feels safe. It is the beach that worries him.”
– Charles G. Davis

Sure thing VG. The BatBoat hasn't been on the water in the over a year, so it's great seeing you guys following up on this concept. It's a sweet ride. Absolutely glides over the swells.

And Kudos to Hobie for upping the Ama size on the new boats.

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The Wind Is Your Friend...

Well, I finally made the trip down to Phillip Island to try the T.I. amas on my lowly 2011 A.I.

All went well. No photos of the boat on the water, but had some nice wind (gusts up to about 20knots).
With the A.I., when a gust hits the sail, I would lean over (to the windward side) in order to balance the
boat, keep it 'flat' and stop the downwind ama from submerging. With the T.I. amas, there was no need
to do this, even though I still instinctively leant across each time I felt a gust hit the sail.

The boat sits much flatter and even with a good gust filling the sail the downwind ama never looked like going
under. It also felt like it stayed more composed when travelling over chop - a bit less pitching? No issues
with turning either. It actually felt more responsive to rudder input, but that can't be right surely?

The seas were pretty flat, with just the odd spot of wind-chop, so my first test-run wasn't exhaustive, but
it all went pretty well.

Here are a few pics from the day, along with some comments:

The T.I. amas looked huge in comparison to the A.I. versions...


Even more so when attached to the boat...


Front view...


Rear view...


The hole spacing on the A.I. amas is around 9.5cm greater than the T.I. ones...


Which results in the front akas being 'swept-back' slightly. The 'toe-in' is about 4.5cm per side...


This also makes fitting the A.I. tramps a bit tricky, as the outer most buckles can't be shortened
enough to allow a snug fit...


The retaining bungees did a fine job, with no 'pogoing' at all. The extra 'twist' in the cord was just
to add a little more tension...


Another difference was the way I transport the boat. With the A.I. amas, I would assemble the entire thing, then
fold the akas/amas against the hull and them walk it to the beach (about 500m away). This wasn't possible with
the T.I. amas, as they wouldn't fold against the hull - they were also too long and would stick out a bit too much
at the rear. The solution was to attach the akas, as normal, but carry the amas on top of the boat and do the
assembly on the beach. This proved easy enough...


Back at the beach after a couple of hours on the water, zipping around. Very happy with the performance, although
I'm still toying with the idea of shifting the rear crossbar forward about 9cm. This presents a few problems, as there's
almost no space to mount the crossbar clamps... Stay tuned...

I don't have an AI, am just wondering if you are planning to go out and purchase TI AMA's in order to update an older AI. The amount of work needed to make the conversion would be the same for for either AI2 ama's or TI ama's. If you are buying the AMA's anyway, the AI2 ama's might be a better option.
Just my observation from afar.
FE

Looks good Mingle. Wonder why my tramps are pulling tight? I may not be pulling them as tight or something. I had a feeling you would like the ride.

_________________
Greg

2016 AI - Spinn & Jib

“Out of sight of land the sailor feels safe. It is the beach that worries him.”
– Charles G. Davis

Agreed Jim. I think the AI2 Amas are "right sized". But the extra capacity and stability of the TI floats are worth having for some of us, with very few trade offs, particularly if you already have a TI in your fleet or can find used floats.

I only wish the masts were that easy to swap out.

Now I guess we will see someone put ATI Amas on a new AI2.

Nice photos Mingle! The bigger Amas are much heavier, so I would add double bungie right away.

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The Wind Is Your Friend...

Hi Jim,

The reason I undertook this exercise is mainly because I was able to get a pair of T.I. amas for a very good price - under 300 bucks, which is far cheaper than buying new!

I also enjoy a bit of tinkering and after reading some of the other threads (thanks NOHUHU & vetgam) about this type of upgrade, I thought it would be worth a shot.

Cheers,

Mike.

Best way you could have spent $300!

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The Wind Is Your Friend...

Okay, went down and had a shot at lining-up the akas with the T.I. amas attached.

Here are some pics to show what I got up to...

Firstly I wanted a better idea of exactly how far out the front akas are when I attach the rear aka braces, as per usual.
I was quite surprised to see that my rear akas weren't particularly square to begin with

Oi! What's going on here? ...


After a little bit of head-scratching it turned out that the brace attachment "ball" on the starboard side was about 12mm
further back than the one on the port-side. I guess roto-moulding isn't an exact science, so a bit of misalignment is to
be expected.

Wonky from the factory...


Anyway, the main reason I was mucking around and measuring was to see if I could rectify the issue of the front aka alignment.
A quick check (with the rear akas deployed and the T.I amas attached) showed the extent of the difference in alignment of the
front akas.

Nothing that vetgam (and others) haven't seen before...


The obvious solution was to move the rear crossbar forward (around 9cm, as it turned out) to bring the front and rear akas into alignment.
The simple (partial) solution was to unbolt the crossbar mounts, move the crossbar forward, then reattach the mounts by putting the bolts
for the rear mounts into the front holes.

Looks almost too good to be true, doesn't it?


Well, there is now a major problem - where to put with the front crossbar mount bolts? Unfortunately they line up with a very awkward section of
the hull, just missing the screw-in padeyes for the rear-well cargo bungees. I conducted a thorough examination of the inside of the hull
around this area. It's not an insurmountable problem, but will require a bit of engineering to ensure that the front bolt will be secure and
the hull is sufficiently strengthened.

Bugger!


However, I still think it's worth the effort, as there are a couple of benefits to having the rear crossbar shifted forward.

After jerry-rigging a couple of lengths of rope to act as 'plumb-lines' I first aligned the front akas. I went along to the
rear akas and, hey-presto, perfect alignment. The A.I. tramps will now no longer fit, as they are too long for the reduced
spacing between the front and rear akas. T.I. tramps fit fine, however...

Nice...


The second benefit - somewhere to store the Trax cart...


The third benefit - the amas sit snugly against the hull...


The other thing that will need to be modified is the location of the brace 'ball' on the gunwale.

The two options for this are: shorten (slightly) the current aka brace to reach the current brace 'ball'
or relocated the brace ball to be behind the seat.

I'll have to think about this too...


Once I've decided how to progress, I'll post some more info. Rest assured - if there's any chance the front crossbar bolts can't
be secured properly, I won't be drilling any holes and will have to put-up with the T.I. amas and A.I. akas as they are.

Cheers,

Mike.

Interesting work Mike. Please keep us posted. I don't know if using well nuts will be as strong as the in-hull points of attachment for the crossbar. Your more nervey than I am.

_________________
Greg

2016 AI - Spinn & Jib

“Out of sight of land the sailor feels safe. It is the beach that worries him.”
– Charles G. Davis