Does peddling increase sailing speed?

My impression is yes, absolutely, peddling increases sailing speed.

The obvious reason is that peddling imparts a forward force, which is added to that from the sail, providing more forward thrust and thus speed. Obvious as heck.

But I think there is more to it than that.

I find that I get a significant kick even with very slow peddling while under sail. Especially when in a close reach. It feels like far more than what I would get from peddling alone.

I suspect two things are going on here.

1) The mirage fins produce significant drag when left stationary, even very slow peddling negates that drag and gives you the equivalent of a smoother hull.

2) An active mirage drive, even in slow motion, acts as an "active keel" - allowing you to run with a much closer haul than you could with just the daggerboard, or - it is like it becomes a much larger 'virtual keel'. More of the vector forces from the sail are able to be turned into forward motion and more of the side force is resisted - perhaps because the motion of the mirage drive actually redirects some of the side vector force rearward. Think of them as two rudders that turn side force into forward motion instead of turning forward motion into a side force like when you turn the rudder at the rear. Damn ... I took a dynamics course in college, but that was too long ago and this is complicated stuff.

Bluemark, the Mirage drive can't direct the side force forward, because it is acting at 90º, but it does direct the resultant force forward and as the vector triangle shows, the greater the force (BA) from the drive, the more the resultant force (CA) approaches straight ahead.

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IMO, it depends somewhat on the fins. Standard fins seem to "mush out" about 7 MPH. Turbofins will pull well past 9 MPH and I think quite a bit faster. Personally, when I get going faster than that, I'm not usually pedaling, but concentrating more on enjoying the sailing. For pinching and tacking though, they're sure handy to have on the ready!

I have found that the Mirage Drive fins when fully extended exert some drag, but not really a huge amount. They have less drag when one pedal is forward and they are up against the hull. I still find that hard to believe, but it keeps happening, so...

When you're sailing at about 5 knots or more, you have to really pedal pretty fast to make any difference. I don't bother. I pedal when I'm going too slow, or when "motorsailing" trying to get upwind.

I thought it was "betel" nuts.. Yeah slipped up with the betel nuts(again)and made a totally toasted fool out of myself. 12 beers will do that to a guy! At least its only once a week !

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New to PCs and this forum stuff. Had an original Outback and Classic. sold them both for the A.I.. Love the boat and especially this site... (if I can figure out how to use it)

Thanks Ditch. And sorry for being such a wild man!I drive a transit bus in New York City long unpredictable hours and get really stressed out- so I make up for it if Im lucky enough to get 2 days off in a row.Anyway you sound like you really know your stuff-its a shame about the availability and price etc of the Island in England.A tandem would be great for you-especially having grandkids. Making your own boat out of plywood would be time consuming and a pain and the boat would be heavy. Why not go to France or Ireland and get one there?

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New to PCs and this forum stuff. Had an original Outback and Classic. sold them both for the A.I.. Love the boat and especially this site... (if I can figure out how to use it)

Okay Mr Ray-thats more my speed! I was thinking the boat CANT be moving faster but if Im not mistaken Im a minority!(once again). You guys out there in cyberspace sure know your engineering/physics& dynamics and all that stuff I`ll give yuh that. Thats why I love this site.I think I really should go back and revise the initial post though because it is too vague.Thanks for the input.(You too Pirate! )

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New to PCs and this forum stuff. Had an original Outback and Classic. sold them both for the A.I.. Love the boat and especially this site... (if I can figure out how to use it)

I too love this site Aledal and where we can all learn something and get a smile at the same time. Pirate

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Master of the galleon 'Pirates Lot'

Went for a sail today in about 5 knots of breeze. I didn't have my dagger-board with me unfortunately but experimented with the mirage drive using it as a centerboard and the AI seemed to be working quite well to windward with the fins vertical. Using the horizon as a guide I could see my heading fall off the wind quite dramatically every time I flattened the fins out to horizontal but returned to heading when I returned them to vertical. Alongside a much larger vessel (and with a bit of pedalling) I was making better distance to windward. Not very scientific I agree but the fins do very much act as a centerboard which is an added bonus to their original function. I am hoping for some wind and wave to try out my custom tramps and will take out my daggerboard if I go out again tomorrow....Pirate

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Master of the galleon 'Pirates Lot'

Pirate,

I think you will find using the daggerboard instead of the vertical fins while sailing windward, the same difference again (pointing that much higher). I know I also see a small additional "help" in pointing higher by also using the fins "down", as well as a little bit more downwind speed by keeping the fins "up".

Here's yesterday's sailing adventure: http://www.trailguru.com/wiki/index.php/Track:8IE1

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Hobie Island Sailing since 2006

I too drive buses - around the market towns and rural villages of Middle England. Do you know any media people - we could have a LifeSwap, and make megabucks - you can borrow my grandkids (and my lodgers), whilst I get to use your Manhattan Penthouse and your Adventure Island...

Deal?

I am confident Bob you are spot on there and I will test them today. Looks though like I am getting my wish of plenty of wind and wave so it may not be ideal conditions in which to test it but will be great to test the tramps.

The reason why I have not been carrying the daggerboard is primarily finding somewhere convenient to put the board when not in use. I however recently spotted another of your inovative AI improvements with the sleeve to hold the board so I am thinking that difficulty will soon be overcome.

Does your experience show if the boat is assisted or hampered to windward if both the daggerboard and the mirage drive are in place at the same time Bob?...Pirate

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Master of the galleon 'Pirates Lot'

I managed to get out today and was experimenting with the Mirage drive. I believe pedalling it make a substantial difference. It was quite gusty today with choppy water. I have invested in a Velocitek speed puck http://www.velocitek.com/products/speedpuck which has proven to be very useful. I was averaging around 6 knots today with a recorded max of 8 Knots. It was too rough to get any real speed up and kept burying the bow and Amas into waves that constantly knocked a lot of speed off. I found I could point probably 10 degrees higher if I peddled.
I experimented with the dagger board up and the Mirage blades down. I found it didn't point as well as the dagger board and also lost speed, presumably due to drag. As I see it, unless you have them both exactly in alignment, the front blade will cause turbulence that is then stirred up further by the rear blade. Also the blades do not sit flat so they will twist wherever they feel like going. They do offer lateral resistance but at the expense of speed. I found it faster with the blades separated and flat against the hull, although I am interested in trying them hanging down at 45 degrees or so and see if that makes any difference. I also tried the dagger board and the Mirage fins down whilst trying to point in quite strong winds, I believe it helped a bit with lateral slippage, but I still couldn't point anywhere near as high as a standard monohull. The rudder was constantly being overpowered in strong gusts whilst going upwind.
I believe we will see a few more down here next season, it is attracting a lot of attention.
My next move will be some tramps. I can't use the full width setup as I often need to quickly fend it off mudbanks with the paddle when the wind blows it sideways onto the mud when I am trying to take pictures of the seals I am helping to monitor. The channel isn't wide enough to anchor easily. I think Pirates design looks the best bet for what I need and the spray skirt at the front will also be very useful. Are you going to have any for sale Pirate?

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Either lead, follow, or get the hell out of the way!

Assisted

When going upwind in all but light wind, it will point better with both the daggerboard and the fins down.

Downwind, except for in heavy wind or larger waves, both out or up is best for speed.

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Hobie Island Sailing since 2006

Keep the beautiful kids -my penthouse is yours anytime.
Nobody touches my Adventure Island-sorry
Dont know any celebs-never met any-wouldnt want to-
Except the Genesis clan of course. Supernatural.

Hey,is it true English busses have 4 front wheels just like in Magical Mystery Tour?

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New to PCs and this forum stuff. Had an original Outback and Classic. sold them both for the A.I.. Love the boat and especially this site... (if I can figure out how to use it)