TI Jib

Agreed, know your boat and your capabilities and your local conditions...VMG is the issue when you have currents to deal with. Even if you can make headway upwind in 20 kts; that doesn't mean you can actually make any way along the shore in that wind when there is a 3 kt current going against you. Your VMG to weather is your boatspeed times the cosine of your heading angle. If your boat only goes 5 kts reefed in 20 kts wind and only points 60 degrees; you are only making 2.5 kts VMG...which means you are going a half knot backwards!

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R/Thom
SeaRail 19
Triak
BMW C600
Formerly Getaway with Custom Spinnakers
Formerly raced F24 Mk II

does anyone know whatever happened to this prototyping effort?

Mfjxd:
When the TI first came out in 2010, It was stated that they were working on a jib option that would be released shortly after release. I bought one of the first TI's on that premise sailed it twice, and felt the boat really needed a jib to fit my bill. I got tired of waiting so I just went ahead and designed and built my own so I could continue to use the boat (otherwise I would have got rid of it). That was 6 yrs ago and I haven't had my boat out without a jib (not even once), actually I had both jib and spinnaker).
Hobie tested many designs and eventually gave up on the jib, this I think was mostly based on owner feedback from the community basically all stating the boat doesn't need a jib at all, and everyone is perfectly happy with the simplicity of the basic craft (99% feel that way). I must be the exception I get bored going 3mph.
Majority rules, there will be no jib option from Hobie I suspect (nobody want's it except me (lol).
Hey I'm good, I'm perfectly happy with what I have, don't really care what others do.
FE

thanks for the reply. i know it might be out on the forum, but do you have any pics, narrative, description of how you did both spinnaker and jib? i am an avid diver, fisher and sailor and this looks to be a great platform for all. a jib would make it even better; everyplace seems to be to weather from here . thanks again and regards, mick

FE, I understand not being able to come in Sarasota Bay against a 5-6 mph current and against an offshore wind. But, it seems to me when you are "out to sea" where currents are less or non-existent, you ought to be able to make headway back to some shore--in FL that usually means safe haven. I'm not referring to Key West, but even there it seems you ought to be able to move parallel to shore until you can make your way back in. I tend to agree with Tony that your first couple times out, you lacked experience to get the boat (and you and your wife) back in. I also think, from day 1, you were trying to have some excuse to modify your sails and add your 2 large motors (which required you to modify your stern to support said motors.)

Interestingly, AI/TI competitors in the WaterTribe Everglades Challenge, and there are dozens of them every year as you know, never complain about being "blown out to sea," while unable to control their boats. They travel about 300 miles along coastal FL from St. Petersburg to Key Largo in all kinds of conditions.

Keith

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2015 AI 2, 2014 Tandem

"Any intelligent fool can make things bigger and more complex ... It takes a touch of genius and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction." A. Einstein

"Less is more" Anon

Keith:
Really good points, perhaps if I had stuck with it I could have learned to get more out of the boat than I was experiencing at the time, thats on me. However I suspect part of my problem is the days we elect to go out on the water which are excellent for snorkeling and diving (our favorite thing to do here), are not the best days to go sailing, if the winds are over 7mph I tend to stay home.
Most days when I do go out often mine is the only sail boat out on the water, after talking to other Island owners, most tend to stay home if the wind is below 10 mph. And I imagine if you take a poll 90% of the TI owners out there don't bother peddling their boats much when sailing, I suspect most pull their drives.
So in otherwords I suck as a sailer and really have little interest in man vs sea and all that rot, and have zero interest in pitting my sailing skills in identical boats against the skills of other. It's much easier for me to use by brain and cheat by any means possible.
Thats one of the things I like about the TI design, it's easily modifyable to any use you want to use the boat for. I don't fish at all, and I definately don't tent camp, and I tend to stay away from any fresh water down here because gators are in all fresh water in Florida.
About 10 months out of the year here on the days I want to go out the typical wind is 3-7 mph, I don't go out as much in the winter because the water is too cold, my wife is native Floridian and won't touch or go in water under 80 deg.
I'm perfectly happy with my TI rigged as a human powered hybrid (tri-bred) craft, not really a sailboat. If there is wind great, but if there is no wind at all thats fine too, actually I don't really care what the actual natural direction and speed are at all, it doesn't really matter to me, my typical cruise speed is 8-10 mph because that's the speed I like to travel, I tend to get really bored peddling the boat at 3mph, if you have to cover 15 miles that day to get to your destination in the 90 plus florida heat and sun it gets quite hot out there. With a 15-20 mph breeze on your face It's actually not bad, with the only down side being keeping your hat on (I've lost a bunch). Plus I get my exercise to boot by peddling 100% of the time. Hey it works for me, that's all I care about.
Someday when the electric/ battery tech catches up with reality, I'll convert to that, it's also not like our old sea ray powerboat where we would burn thru our 80 gallon tank over the weekend, we are out most weekends and typically use about a quart of fuel, I buy special ethanol free gas and a five gallon can of the stuff lasts me about 6 months typically. I can afford that.
Of course my ultimate goal is to be able to pedal with two average peddlers at an average cruise speed of 8-10 mph up to around ten hrs. Of course I can do that now with my generation 2 wing designs, but we are exhausted in under a mile. Unfortunately the design side is taking way longer than anticipated (those darn Aerodynamics laws) and all my gen 2 stuff is near end of life now. Plus I'm too busy with real work (nothing to do with my hobby) to spend any time on it.
Now I have the new eclipse flow 90 fins, I see no reason my gen 3 wing tech when completed in about a year can't achieve my goal (It's all been designed for a couple yrs now, just tryin to get the time to make the crap), "no wind no problem,,, at 8-10 mph", I don't do well at 3mph just saying. Well those are my goals anyway.
FE

It all sounds great, FE. Keep it up!!!

Keith

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2015 AI 2, 2014 Tandem

"Any intelligent fool can make things bigger and more complex ... It takes a touch of genius and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction." A. Einstein

"Less is more" Anon

Hello
could you specify why the Tandem is ready for the jib and the AI is not?
If I am not wrong the bow of the AI is longer than the bow of the TI and this could be an advantage for mounting any bow sail.

SI you are correct. The AI is more suited for a jib due to the longer bow. Both boats are cat rigged vessels designed for one sail efficency. Still, adding a jib to an AI will add speed, just not the added boost you get on a typical monohull. Typical use for me has been use of the jib 2/3 of the time and the spin 1/3 of the time. If I had to pick between the two, I would pick the jib. I discovered how to "fly" the jib like a spinnaker out and away from behind the main which gives a suprisingly spinnaker type ride and is actually more suitable downwind for winds over 12mph than the spinnaker. Makes for a very versatile jib.

Bottom line is I think the jib is very useful but Hobie may have elected not to produce one for feAR that many might be disappointed by expectations of great speed advantages. The spinnaker on the other hand, gives a great "oh wow" feel when you use it. You just can't use it as much as the jib.

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Greg

2016 AI - Spinn & Jib

“Out of sight of land the sailor feels safe. It is the beach that worries him.”
– Charles G. Davis

At one time there was a canvas tab on TI sails near the mast head in anticipation of a future jib. This may have been where a comment about the TI being "jib ready" came from.

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Greg

2016 AI - Spinn & Jib

“Out of sight of land the sailor feels safe. It is the beach that worries him.”
– Charles G. Davis

Moreover though the spinnaker is the best solutuion for downwind sailing, it is useless for upwind and maybe also for broad reaching. The jib would give u some speed with any wind direction, including downwind.

In my experience, the spinnaker is useful through ALL wind angles from beam reach and below.

BTW my 2012 TI has the black tab at about 3/4 up, and having seen the neat way the Hobie spinnaker tack is sent to the bow, it would seem eminently doable to apply the same principal to a jib, also rigging up a pseudo traveller (bridle) for the clew. Having said all that, I don't believe a non-overlapping jib would make that much sailing difference (remember the spinnaker, on a beam reach, comes within about 18 inches of the REAR aka, and that is a LOT of overlap that a fore-triangle jib wouldn't have).

I believe that only a masthead genoa (150%?) would offer a sizable improvement in performance, and am presently happy to make do with a two sail rig.

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Tony Stott
2012 Tandem Island "SIC EM" with Hobie spinnaker

Tony:
I've been running a 3 sail rigged TI for over 6 yrs now, that is a lot of sails, rigging, and complexity that I'm pretty sure 99% of the TI owners want nothing to do with. I think the concensus is if the winds are over around 10mph the boat performs pretty well, and above 14mph winds even the single main is too much sail and must be reefed.
In really light winds you are able to simply pedal the boat and still make headway.
In our area most of the year the wind is 3-7mph most days (at least on the days I'm able to go out). I used to try and go out pretty much every weekend year round, but because of doctors orders, I had to cut that back to every other weekend lately (I have a broken back injury from long ago, and the doctor feels my excessive kayaking agrivates my condition). Because of that injury I am restricted to pretty flat sea conditions. Also I think our area is unique because even in 10-12 mph wind we get severe 2-3 ft washing machine chop that makes my being on the water very uncomfortable (because of my bad back).
I've been told there are at least 150 local TI owners, but fact of the matter is I'm the only TI out in the area on saturdays thru most of the ten month summer. And often the only sail boat in site (any type (besides the giant 50-60 ft cruisers). Actually on those light days I play billiards with all the sailboats that are in irons (somethin to do). I chase down each boat in the bay, sail around it waving, then move on to the next. My eyes aren't that good but they all appear to have one arm up saluting me somehow as I circle them.
I find myself using 2 sails 95% of the time, and only end up using the spinnaker 5% of the time. My problem is on the few occasions I'm sailing downwind in light winds, I get almost as much performance with a barbor hauler on the main, then throwing the jib out the other side (I call it batwing), as I do with the giant spin. As a result I simply hardly ever bother to put the spin out, for the longest time I still took it along but left it down and furled (my spin is rotofurling and runs on it's own halyard). After a while I realised I just never use it anymore so if The winds are light, anymore I just leave it hanging in the garage, all the ropes,pulleys, bowsprit, and rigging are still on the boat and it only takes two minutes to throw it on the boat when I plan to take it along. When we are in Key west it's a different story, I always take it along down there and use it often, because we have the trade winds down there. However my wife sold her store down there, and we go down less and less anymore, (used to be a week or two/month, lately it's more like 1-2 weeks a year).
To make a long story short (too late), my preference on a two sail system is jib and main, I tend to use it a lot more.
Thats all
FE

Interesting that you bring up a Genoa, Tony. I had been tempted to have a bigger foresail built for lighter wind days. Maybe a 110% jib. For those that have compared foresails of different sizes, how much performance difference do you experience as you go from 100%, 110% or 150% jibs/genoas? Is it a straight line cure on performance or does on size suddenly excel performance?

The 100% jib allows for the best rigging/furling potential. A larger jib/genoa will likely cause me some furling issues so I don't want to do it if there is no gain.

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Greg

2016 AI - Spinn & Jib

“Out of sight of land the sailor feels safe. It is the beach that worries him.”
– Charles G. Davis

Traditionally, one of the perceived benefits of a foresail is an improvement in ability to point higher for better VMG, not necessarily for an improvement in raw speed. Have you looked for or seen this?

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2015 TI Hibiscus " Bazinga"
Harbor Freight modified trailer with TI cradles
Heavy duty scupper cart with cradle
Hobie tramps- black