What does the lack of new TI info today mean?

The handles on the TI are great...

My wife loves that they are there so she has something to hang on to when she gets nervous.

My 2015 is on order... I hope it ends up having handles.

Of course... and with input from reps, dealers and users from all around the World.

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Matt Miller
Former - Director of Parts and Accessory Sales
Warranty and Technical Support
Hobie Cat USA
(Retired 11/7/2022)

Handles are gone. CT seat corners are a good hand hold.

The consensus is that the handles were like a fire hose in windy wavy conditions and the drier ride is well worth the removal. Again, addition of accessory handles for those that like them is simple... and you can get them positioned where you want them.

Jim Czarnowski (Director of Engineering) has spent more time in these seats than just about anybody in the World. He has done many of the Everglades Challenges and in both the AIs and TI. He removed his handles due to the wet factor.

Car topping a TI? Not the norm and not upside down due to crossbars and deck hardware.

_________________
Matt Miller
Former - Director of Parts and Accessory Sales
Warranty and Technical Support
Hobie Cat USA
(Retired 11/7/2022)

I guess it will be what it will be, If they have to get rid of the handles I guess they do.
However I feel this to be a huge mistake, the handles on the TI were never a problem for me as far as splashing water, also in Florida we have to transport the TI over sometimes up to a 1/2 mile of ankle deep suger soft dry sand (like at Siesta Key and Lido beaches in Sarasota, or Higgs, and Smathers beach in Key West). There is no wheeled cart that anyone makes (even the one with the 30 inch wheels) that you can get across that soft sand (the sand is just too soft and deep). The only way to transport the TI is to have one person on each side, grab a handle and walk the boat down to the water, four people carrying the boat is ideal (one on each handle). By the way has anyone at Hobie even tried to carry a TI with the AMA's on and loaded by the front and rear handles, it's near impossible to do BTW (too dang heavy). I don't really care what you do with the AI, handles or no handles probably makes little difference, because the boat isn't as heavy as the TI. I have very little interest in the AI that probably shows (LOL)
I sometimes car top my TI, as I used to car top our old Oasis. Just manipulating the old Oasis around trying to get it on our roof was very dangerous and difficult (no place to grab), and I actually got hurt trying to load the Oasis on my roof (no handles or anyplace to grab the boat securely). Once we got the TI I had many more places to grab with the convenient handles, way safer, because of the handles the TI is actually much easier to load on our roof vs our old Oasis (the Oasis was the old 2007 design with no handles at all).
Also when tipping the TI hull up to put the scupper cart under the boat at beach side, without the handles there is literally no means to tip the boat up to put the scupper cart in. We use our TI in kayak mode quite a bit, you really need them even more so in kayak mode.
Seriously if the handles are removed, I will have no intentions to purchase a 2015 or newer TI (music to Hobies ears I'm sure LOL), I'll find something else to play with. I was hurt too many times trying to manipulate our old heavy Oasis around (with no handles), and I feel removing all the handles from the TI will make it downright dangerous for me.

The perplexing thing to me about this is my old 2007 Oasis which had no handles was an extremely awkward kayak to move around because you had literally no place to grab the kayak when manipulating the boat around trying to tip it up to put the scupper cart under it, or just moving it around ( a very awkward kayak). When they came out with the new Oasis design they added integrated handles, and this made all the difference in the world on the Oasis design (I actually wouldn't mind owning an Oasis now).
Like I said earlier you guys are going to do what your going to do regardless, but removing the handles out of the mold (they are already in there currently) will cost a great deal of money, and from my eyes, it's going to really make the TI very awkward to be able to simply move the boat around (because the boat is very large and heavy to begin with, much more so than the AI).
I challenge anyone with a current TI to take the hull only, and try to tip the hull up onto it's side so the scupper cart can be placed into the scupper holes, then tip it back down. You can't use any handles at all (good luck with that, I know I can't do it). We store our TI on it's side in the garage up against the wall off, good luck trying to tip it up against the wall without anything like handles to grab on to "try it". I did this with my TI's at least 4 times per week for the last 3 1/2 yrs every weekend (until I started storing on my trailer last year), I know for a fact I cannot tip the boat up without grabbing the handles.
In fact I challenge anyone to simply tip a TI hull onto its side by grabbing the smooth round bottom of the hull and tipping the boat up on its side , I know I can't do it.

Bob

Guess I'll have to agree with Matt on this one. Even with the AI, I would never consider car topping, no way, trailer all the way. I never use the handles. I always insert the cart underneath before coming ashore thru the swell. Makes it easier to quickly pull up the beach, heavy duty cart. I never insert the cart on shore, having to tip the kayak sideways. I would do the same with the TI. Although I might need the balloon wheels for the weight factor. Once cleared of trouble I would break down the TI before wheeling it to the trailer. I would never try to manhandle the TI, no way, I won't even try the AI.
But for those few who have circumstances that require a handle, at least there is an option to install as Mattt said. I am sure that Bob's case is a rare circumstance, in my opinion, no offense bob.

Elvis

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Mark
Tandem Island- 2013
2 - Sports - 2014

Gee Bob, did you miss the bit about the new seat providing suitable hand holds? Obviously the pre 2015 seats are totally unsuitable for this purpose.

I would like to see whether it is practical for four people to carry a 2015 TI using the seats before dismissing Hobie's decision.

Also Bob, I would have thought that since Hobie needed to make a new top half hull mold to accommodate the higher floor, new seat scupper valves and Vantage style seat, that not having to form the hollows for the old style handles would have actually been a financial saving (not that I believe Hobie has made any of the changes for profit reasons)

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Tony Stott
2012 Tandem Island "SIC EM" with Hobie spinnaker

I did not intend to suggest carrying by the seats. The comment was in regard to hand holds while pedaling. I think the additional support and adjust ability of the seats will make the holds less important as well.

_________________
Matt Miller
Former - Director of Parts and Accessory Sales
Warranty and Technical Support
Hobie Cat USA
(Retired 11/7/2022)

I think Hobie struck a nerve with Bob!

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2015 Hobie Tandem Island Hibiscus
"Third Normal Form"

• Trampolines
• Hobie cover
• Davis Spar Fly
• Kayakbob's Sprayskirts
• Spine Board Hakas

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Mark
Tandem Island- 2013
2 - Sports - 2014

Understood Matt. I have a skipper seat on my TI, and I tend to hang on to the edges of the seat, or, as I sit up front, I lean out and grabe some aka.

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Tony Stott
2012 Tandem Island "SIC EM" with Hobie spinnaker

But not it seems from any of us diehard forum members!

Sure, there where complaints about the water funnelling handles from day one. I was amazed how they got through the trial and development stage. My first trip in my warranty upgraded '11 AI hull I got soaked. But I think what most of us expected was a fix that kept the handles. I know Hobie tried. I remember seeing the remoulded handle pic on this forum. But when that failed the solution was to drop the handles entirely. That's a cop out.
I'm with Bob on this one. I had an early Oasis and it was a beast to handle. There was just nowhere to grab it. Roadrunner was the first to post on adding handles which I copied and then Hobie added much better integrated handles across the range as part of their product improvement. Happy days!
Of course we can add those old webbing handles again, but they are nowhere near as comfortable as the factory fitted ergonomic handles.
Getting rid of the handles is no upgrade ....it's a downgrade!

So how strong is the crossbar the Vantage seat attaches to?

Looking at some videos, it appears that bar should be fine for rolling the kayak on its side. Might even be strong enough (since the seat itself is rated for more than the weight of the kayak) to carry from the sides as well. Only issue I see is the bar probably isn't in an ideal position for grabbing and carrying any distance.

why can't you grab an Aka cross bar to tip it on its side ?

... with my OldSkeewl 2007 AI's, I can single-handedly manhandle it up into the Hullivator's waiting arms - BUT - only becuase it has the molded-in handles. I WILL be upgrading to the new design this year or next .. but wonder how I'll perform this Feat of Strength with the new hull sans handles

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Alan W.

Papaya AI2 to replace my well worn V1
TheTwins - His/Hers 2007 Papaya Hobie Adventure Island's (v1.00.01)
.. and a Hobie Outback SUV

Of course you all know that is not true, but we can't listen to each and every idea about what each and every user would think is best. Imagine if Jeep listened to the guys in the Philippines about what looks best on a Jeep?...

_________________
Matt Miller
Former - Director of Parts and Accessory Sales
Warranty and Technical Support
Hobie Cat USA
(Retired 11/7/2022)

Of course Matt. Along with the many great ideas that have been posted here over the years there have also been many not so great. I've been guilty of a few myself!
I meant in relation to this handle issue. Removing a very functional feature entirely because it had a minor fault is disappointing. When Hobie added the handles I was very impressed with their functionality, not so with the water funnelling. It was much worse on the AI and only really an occasional minor irritation on the TI. With the new raised mesh seats and Venturi scuppers it would be much less of an issue.
The reasons for adding the handles in the first place must have been good enough to justify their production.
With the new hulls, especially the bulkier heavier AI, surely it's important to keep/improve anything that assists with handling, not remove it entirely?