Jib Physics & "the slot effect"

Blasius you may be on to something there. That sure seems to be moving smoothly. What are the tube sizes you are using and is this electrical or plumbing pvc?

If you know your going to follow through I would buy the jib now. It will help you test the hardware as you go.

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Greg

2016 AI - Spinn & Jib

“Out of sight of land the sailor feels safe. It is the beach that worries him.”
– Charles G. Davis

It looks like you have it working freely enough. Even with it working freely you still need to furl/unfurl the sail with minimal loading on the jib and main. I usually point into the wind (most other sailboats do the same). Even with that, I sometimes have to help the sail unfurl the last turn or so out.
If you are using a rear stay line you need to shorten the battens in the main a little so they don't stick out so far, otherwise the rear stay/halyard line can get hung up in the batten covers.
Good luck
FE

I used hydraulic pressure pipes and joints, with different DN (Diameter Nominal) and PN (Pressure Nominal).
E.g. The pipe on the tip of the mast is DN 32 PN 10 (as far as I know it corresponds to NPS 1"1/4 at 10 Bar)

If you want I can try to disassembly the joint and show each piece.



I still don't know if I would use a mast for the jib or not.
I suppose that the shape of the edges must be different in case a mast is used or not.

Can you please show me the edges of you jib, expecially the curve?

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Biagio

Do you mean that the batten covers can get hung up in the line?
I supposed that the bracket of the mast top has to exceed in lenght the batten covers position, so that the line cannot cross
the batten covers, but just touch the bracket if the line is pulled too much.

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Biagio

Yes the purpose of the extension is to prevent that, however if you watch some of my videos you will see when I'm on an upwind with the main mast bent backwards, the stay line sags.
FE

I am working on attaching a jib to my TI, ideally wanting to be able to furl the mainsail and jib separately. I ordered a sail and furling system then went to the local home improvement center to look for ideas for the mast top swivel. I thought I might have something but prototype #1 was a failure. I called a sailing buddy who makes boats who recommended I talk to an outfit that makes custom stainless steel parts, showed them what I wanted to do, gave them a $150 cap and am now waiting to see if they will do it or not. They suggested a piece that clamps around about four inches of the mast. It would have bearings and a top piece that moves freely. Whether I get it or not and try a homemade something something again, I will post the information here.

I notice Fisioneng’s recommendation that the side support lines to the amas not be used but that a support rope to the stern be used except for smaller sails. I bought a 45sqft jib (Hobie 16 jib). When it came I realized that it was more sale than I had anticipated both in area and in sturdiness. It is 300gr or 7oz Dacron.

Questions (mainly directed toward Fisioneng’s recommendations): If the halyard attached to the jib slides through the mast top swivel to the stern how does the line support the mast? Is it the friction that lightens the pressure on the mast? Would the line be needed for a 45sqft jib? If you recommend the halyard line running to the stern, How long does the arm pointing toward the stern need to be? Looking at pictures, it looks like something over a foot.

Sail related questions: The jib I got is a 300gr or 7oz dacron heavy weight. I haven’t used it yet but noticed it is more difficult to manage. I can get a c420 jib sail that is 200gr, also from Intensity Sails. Do you think I would be happier with a lighter smaller sail (about 30sqft) or do you think I will I enjoy the more rig sail? Are more rigid sails more easily trimmed?

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...mark...

Enjoying a 2012 TI
w/ hakas, a stainless steel
mast topper & furling jib

HogMark you might want to consider this. If you get the self furling jib, then you lose the ability later to add the Reacher without trashing all the work and rigging you created for the jib. On the other hand, If you buy the reacher, you can probably use the rigging for both sails. I will be experimenting with this when the reacher gets delivered in the coming weeks. Will report back here.

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Greg

2016 AI - Spinn & Jib

“Out of sight of land the sailor feels safe. It is the beach that worries him.”
– Charles G. Davis

As far as the jib size and material, I would want to stay smaller than 25sq ft based on the problems that others have noted- flexing of the front hatch and taking in water if forces on the luff get too great. I vote for the lightest, strongest material you can get. I used Code 0 material for my jib and I like that it is strong yet thin. It handles easy and should even snuff in a sock when that option becomes available.

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Greg

2016 AI - Spinn & Jib

“Out of sight of land the sailor feels safe. It is the beach that worries him.”
– Charles G. Davis

As far as the topper, I like fusioneng's style setup that is posted on page 3 of this thread. It's simple and cheap to make and doesn't weigh a whole lot. Stainless steel would be bombproof, but I would guess that it would be pretty heavy, which isn't fun when raising/lowering the mast. My topper came out to be well under 2 pounds, which is pretty light, but it is VERY noticeable at the end of that 18' mast when raising it. I made mine out of PVC with an aluminium rod epoxied inside.

As far as the length of the arm that points towards the stern, it seems that with fusioneng's style topper, 24 inches is the general consensus. I haven't any issues with entanglements between the main sail and aft stay at that length.

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-- Chad | 2014 TI

Chad, you have a tandem correct? How big of a jib did you go with? Would you go bigger or smaller if you did it again?

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Greg

2016 AI - Spinn & Jib

“Out of sight of land the sailor feels safe. It is the beach that worries him.”
– Charles G. Davis

Vetgam, yep, I have a tandem. As far as getting an actual jib sail, that's where I'm stuck, so I have no real advice for that... I have done a ton of research on these forums and have determined 30-35 square feet would be a good size for the tandem, at least for my needs (maybe some other tandem jib people will chime in on this). I don't really want to have to run a bowsprit, so I would like to keep the length of the foot of the sail below 4 feet. So I've been trying to find a sail from other boats that have a jib around these dimensions, but have yet to find any. So that's where I'm stuck...

So far, I have my mast topper built and have been running it with a fore and aft stay and a halyard. I've had this setup out 5 or 6 times and have mainly been testing clearances between the stays, halyard and the main sail battens. The halyard got caught up in the battens a few times when reefing while running downwind, but after a few changes I got it worked out. I'm now pretty happy with the rig, I just need an actual sail!

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-- Chad | 2014 TI

Chad if we get a chance to sail together before the Texas 200, your welcome to use my jib on your boat. It is about 21 sq ft. We could even use my rigging (would take no more than 5 minutes to switch out) if you wanted to try something different.

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Greg

2016 AI - Spinn & Jib

“Out of sight of land the sailor feels safe. It is the beach that worries him.”
– Charles G. Davis

If you didn't mind, I'd be up for that! It'd be nice to try a sail or two before I bought one. When you had your jib made, did you have dimensions in mind, or did the sail maker help design it to your needs and based off the dimensions of your boat? I found a sail maker up by Austin and was thinking about giving them a call, but didn't know what kind of information they might need.

By the way, did you put an order in for the new reacher?

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-- Chad | 2014 TI

The sailmaker designed the sail using computer generated specs based on the size of the Adventure island. I have been pleased with the size chosen. Any bigger would have limited it's use to light winds only.

Ordered the Reacher last week. If all goes as planned It should give me the ability to raise and sail any combination of main, jib and reacher individually or all at the same time if i wanted. The jib has its own separate rigging. I suspect that it dosen't make much sense to fly the jib and the Reacher at the same time. I see some pictures of people doing this but i assume they are avoiding the hassle of taking down the jib while going downwind briefly. Once setup i will to be able to raise and lower all sails without leaving the seat. Should be wounderfull. Wish I had the AI2 to do this with its bigger main but I can't get myself to give up my current seating arrangement.

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Greg

2016 AI - Spinn & Jib

“Out of sight of land the sailor feels safe. It is the beach that worries him.”
– Charles G. Davis

Thank you for the replies and comments.

I haven't done hardly any reading on the reacher. I will have to do that. For this coming season I think I will play with what I have and learn a thing or two. Maybe lesson 1 is ask BEFORE diving into something. Maybe a sealed front hatch might reduce frustration as I experiment and learn more lessons.

Sail size: I was preferring a shorter foot as well, but could not find one so ended up with 5.75 ft. I am guessing I can go with a rope 'loosen one side, tighten the other' with the rope flowing behind the mast. If that doesn't work, plan B is a quick disconnect, reconnect. I don't fish, so I have to have something to do. Plan C might be to go with a partially furled jib when/if I need to.

Really appreciate the responses!

...mark...

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...mark...

Enjoying a 2012 TI
w/ hakas, a stainless steel
mast topper & furling jib