TI Jib

Thanks guys! I'll start with 6-8 inches and go from there. The loss of visibility has been another concern of mine. Luckily, I only have a few buoys to avoid out on the lake.

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-- Chad | 2014 TI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=buyi5mu ... iKjUYGYw0r

The above video is making a jib out of a tarp. Can't get cheaper than that.

The tarp jib is a good start for a small cheap jib. The fabric isn't really firm enough for a good jib. It stretches too much. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tNxiUsR ... iKjUYGYw0r
this video is showing the tarp jib after it was made.

Truthfully, though, with all the problems there are in trying to substitute for a forestay, I'd go with a different design instead of a crosscut jib, radial head would probably be better--but it is harder to make. Dacron isn't that expensive (IMO), but there's nothing wrong with learning new stuff.

Personally, I'd suggest the spinnaker kit, you will actually see some performance improvement (4 kts or more) with the spinnaker...not so much with the jib (at best 2 kts). Now I grant you it does take 2/3 of your sailing time to go to weather in most conditions so a little improvement might be enough to suit you.

On my boat (Not a TI, mine is a rigid composite kayak), I opted for both as you see in the video, I snuff both the jib and the spinnaker on the foredeck (mine is sit inside). What works on my boat might not on yours, but I opted for a small jib that has the tack aft of the bow and only overlaps the mast by a little. It's only 14 square feet, but does what I want. FYI, I've been making my own sails for about 10 years, it isn't hard to do and learning the methods to create a foil shape out of cloth will make you a better sailor.

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R/Thom
SeaRail 19
Triak
BMW C600
Formerly Getaway with Custom Spinnakers
Formerly raced F24 Mk II

Crosscut jobs last longer than radial cut jibs. Radial cut jibs perform better than cross cut. Get the strongest lightweight material you can get. Furled jibs can be made with stronger materials than a jib you need to snuff. Everything is a trade off.

My jib ripped this weekend. It lasted 1.5 seasons and I worked it hard, and used it every outing. A jib spend more time flailing than the mail and this is hard on a sail. It was radial cut and made of a wonderfull material called Code 0. Very light and no stretch to it. Perfect for jib you want to snuff. I have decided to furl rather than snuff so I will probably get a thicker material next time. I will probably go with the radial cut.

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Greg

2016 AI - Spinn & Jib

“Out of sight of land the sailor feels safe. It is the beach that worries him.”
– Charles G. Davis

Crosscut does last longer because you can recut the luff to restore performance after it deforms after many seasons of use. In these tiny boats and sails, though, you should be able to afford a new jib every season-especially if you make it yourself. Of course, spinnakers hardly ever need replacing, which is another reason to get a spin kit and forget about a jib.

I wouldn't use code zero fabric in a snuffing sail, most code zero has both mylar and "strings" of either carbon fiber or other high tech line (e.g., dyneema or vectran). mylar and high tech line don't like getting scrunched over and over. Code zero does make a good furling sail and is a good choice for (drum roll) a code zero sprit sail. For sails as small as these boats need, dacron works well unless you need to snuff it, then it is too stiff. Dacron makes great and long lasting furling sails. I've been using a light weight polyester in my snuffing jib (same fabric as dacron but not made stiff). SurLast is the trade name. I expect to make another one soon-takes about 8 hours total for a radial head sail. BTW, one of my videos shows how to make a simple radial head sail. You make it just like a radial head spinnaker but with different fabric and different camber percents.

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R/Thom
SeaRail 19
Triak
BMW C600
Formerly Getaway with Custom Spinnakers
Formerly raced F24 Mk II

I snuffed the jib from time to time and maybe THAT explains its shorter life. I have settled on either furling into the main's mast or hand rolling the tack end while the jib remained raised and then stuffing the rolled jib into the crease of main and then turning furling the main 1/2 turn. The second option is what I do when flying the spinnaker. That way the jib quickly unfurls once the spin is put up.

Bottom line is that I will probably have the Code 0 jib fixed, if possible and maybe have a 110 or 120% jib made out of Dacron. I want to see what adding just a bit more jib does. The risk in that is that a bigger jib might not be suitable in stronger winds where the 100% jib tends to compliment a spinnaker well. It can be used in so may conditions. I'd hate to loose that versatility by going too big.

To me, getting a new sail is almost as much fun as getting a new version of the Island.

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Greg

2016 AI - Spinn & Jib

“Out of sight of land the sailor feels safe. It is the beach that worries him.”
– Charles G. Davis

Yah, I know what you mean. I pity the folks who only sail their boats.

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R/Thom
SeaRail 19
Triak
BMW C600
Formerly Getaway with Custom Spinnakers
Formerly raced F24 Mk II

tpdavis,

Thanks for posting the video!

I get that you added material to the luff, and stitched darts into the leading edge of the sail to setup your camber. What is not clear to me from the video was the detail on that.

Can you suggest any instructional material you found helpful in your sail making education?

My Dad was a gifted upholsterer and amongst other things like car tops/seats did tenting for the army. Wish I had his sewing head.
I have done quite a few harneses using a sewing awl and hand stiching, which though time consuming should do what I need.

knowing where to place the darts to or add material to achieve proper sail shape is the tricky bit...

/Robin

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/Robin
2016 TI Hibiscus
Amish spray skirts/trampolines
Northern Tool 4X48 utility trailer (modified)

HI Robin,

IN a normal crosscut sail, you are stitching full panels and you broadseam each panel as it approaches the luff.

In the video, since there are no panels, you have to create a spot to broadseam. The seams should look like inverted golf tees where it gets wider as it approaches the luff.

For these sails, you should do a broadseam measuring up from the tack about every 30"...Mark the spot and measure the distance from that spot to the leach (measuring parallel to the foot)--just for an example let's say it is 72". Take how many inches that distance is and divide by 3 (72 divided by 3 is 24)...that distance is where you cut from the luff spot toward the leach (ie, cut from the luff toward the leach 24" (make the cut parallel to the foot)). That will be the position of maximum camber. Now you are going to sew the slit back together. How much overlap will you want? That depends on how firm the fabric is. Stretchy fabric needs less broadseaming. Let's use 12:1 for mylar (no stretch), could go up to 30:1 for tarp. so we want 2" at the end to be sewn together at the luff end of our slit. Since we want it to look like a golf T, we'll save half (1") for the last quarter distance (6"). So, start from the end of the slit and move the fabric together 1/4" for the first 6". Move the fabric together total of 1/2" at the 12" spot. At the 18" spot you will have the fabric together by 1". The last six inches will move it together the remaining 1".
(when you get toward the top of the sail, the seams are really short, so don't bother).

Clear as mud, right? I learned some of the art of sailmaking from Sailrite -- they used to have a series of books. I don't bother with software because then someone else is making decisions about where to put the camber and how much. I would be willing to walk you through it once you get the material you need. We could skype while you are in the throes.

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R/Thom
SeaRail 19
Triak
BMW C600
Formerly Getaway with Custom Spinnakers
Formerly raced F24 Mk II

In my quest for discovering the biggest jib that makes sense to buy, I found this article. Seems to answer my question well.

http://www.inthepresentsea.com/the_actu ... izing.html

In winds over 12mph, I find a 100% jib to be starting to get overpowered. When this happenes I relax the main to level the boat. I think I need to limit the size to no bigger than 110%. 100% may actually be best after all.

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Greg

2016 AI - Spinn & Jib

“Out of sight of land the sailor feels safe. It is the beach that worries him.”
– Charles G. Davis

Nice article, thanks for posting...with these easily driven boats (lightweight), 105 is likely to be max needed. If it is very light wind, the asymspin will work to weather.

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R/Thom
SeaRail 19
Triak
BMW C600
Formerly Getaway with Custom Spinnakers
Formerly raced F24 Mk II

Just when I was starting to feel good about potential speed of my TI under spinnaker, I hot reminded of the real world from this video of a Hobie 16 running in overdrive. I will never complain about airborne spray again...
[youtube2]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RczXCgrVGZY[/youtube2]
PS I HATE how this forum makes it so hard to post videos.

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Tony Stott
2012 Tandem Island "SIC EM" with Hobie spinnaker

Your missing the closing "]" at the end. Sorry, I'm a programmer by trade so my eye picks these things up really quickly.

Sent from my SPH-L720T using Tapatalk

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2015 Hobie Tandem Island Hibiscus
"Third Normal Form"

• Trampolines
• Hobie cover
• Davis Spar Fly
• Kayakbob's Sprayskirts
• Spine Board Hakas

Nope, didn't fix it Tom. Maybe it is designed to only work in the northern hemisphere lol

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Tony Stott
2012 Tandem Island "SIC EM" with Hobie spinnaker

Tony:
Either remove the youtube2 and the braces from each end and just post it as a link, or only paste whats rught of the equal sign in between the youtube2 braces. I usually do both (post as a link and within the youtube2 braces on the next line down, this way they both work).
FE

Good point about the asymmetric spin being used in very light winds to windward. I have found the new Hobie spin will sail to windward in very light wind to my suprise. An asymmetric spin compliments a 100 jib very well and vice versa. As wind increases, when one sail lacks use, the other comes into play. Both have uses upwind and downwind at different wind strengths. It not as black and white as to say that jibs are for windward and asymetric spinnakers are for downwind.

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Greg

2016 AI - Spinn & Jib

“Out of sight of land the sailor feels safe. It is the beach that worries him.”
– Charles G. Davis