Campaign to keep the TI handles ...add your name here

The explanations are very helpful, I feel a lot better about the handle change now. It makes sense to me that with all the variables not everyone has experienced the funneling problem. If needed, a surface applied handle may be a better solution.
thanks
- chris

Bob, I've never known any AI owner to complain about water funneling off the handles. I have always thought it was a TI problem. Stringy, help us out here.

Keith

_________________
2015 AI 2, 2014 Tandem

"Any intelligent fool can make things bigger and more complex ... It takes a touch of genius and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction." A. Einstein

"Less is more" Anon

Here is 29 pages of comments related to wet rides on the AI and TI.

http://www.hobiecat.com/forums/search.php?st=0&sk=t&sd=d&sr=posts&keywords=wet+AI&fid%5B%5D=67&start=420

A primary focus was to eliminate as much potential water into the cockpit as possible.

_________________
Matt Miller
Former - Director of Parts and Accessory Sales
Warranty and Technical Support
Hobie Cat USA
(Retired 11/7/2022)

I'll go on record here, I have a AI and water does funnel off of the handles.
Personally, I think that Hobie knows a lot more about designs and funtionability about Kayaks then I'll ever know and am willing to let them figure this inconvienience out.
I live in So.Cal and for me, as an ex surfer and Hobie Cat sailor, I enjoy the wet ride as it's part of the water dawg experience that I like.

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Keith,
The water funneling problem began when Hobie added the molded handles.
So all TI's and AI's (from '10 onwards?) have the problem. It is worse on the AI because it sits lower in the water. I noticed it on my first trip to work in my warranty replaced '11 AI hull (kayak mode). On what would normally have been a dry ride I ended sitting in a seat well puddle. The issue was not there in my '08, '09 hulls without the side handles.
Here is a short clip of the problem. This was taken in calm conditions but our TI was loaded up for camping. Any chop that hits the handle area is directed into the seat well



Here are a couple of early posts. The first gives a bit of an insight into how the problem arose. It seems the new handles were tested on the TI but not so much on the AI.
viewtopic.php?f=75&t=35009
Slaughter posted a fix which has worked well. I'm still using it on the AI. The foam has weathered a bit and I'm now using shadecloth rolled around the bungee, which also works.
viewtopic.php?f=69&t=35258&p=142453

What I had hoped for from Hobie was a fix for the water funneling and not the handles removal.

Matt,
As you know I consider removing the handles a cop out and a backward step.
The positives with the handles far outweighed the one negative. An AI/TI is always going to be a wet ride. The new raised mesh seats and remote venturi drain have made the water funneling less of an issue.
I'm a bit worried about what is going to happen with the Revo16. The water funneling is a real problem with this hull as well. Are the handles remaining on it? I would hate to see them removed. Yet I would also like to see a factory fix for the splashing. One that didn't involve the handles disappearing.

What are the chances of a proper fix on the Revo 16?

Stringy, nice video that illustrates the problem. I've always had the seats on our AIs elevated some with foam and, the last couple years, with the I-seat (i.e., the inflatable seat--both comfortable and "wet puddle" free.) I see the splash in the video, and it probably occurs on our AIs, but we have just never noticed it. Obviously, we have not considered it a problem.

Keith

_________________
2015 AI 2, 2014 Tandem

"Any intelligent fool can make things bigger and more complex ... It takes a touch of genius and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction." A. Einstein

"Less is more" Anon

"No problem ma'am"

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Well my 2009 AI never water spouted like that

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Every day is an Adventure Island day

I'm sure the handles remained on the Revo 16 (name only conversion). The boat does not have the speed or heeling that causes the issue under pedals alone.

_________________
Matt Miller
Former - Director of Parts and Accessory Sales
Warranty and Technical Support
Hobie Cat USA
(Retired 11/7/2022)

Thanks Matt, but those handles still funnel water onto the seat in Adventure kayak mode. The '11 hull, just pedaling or paddling in the slightest of chops, is a much wetter ride than the earlier handle-less models. You don't need to be going fast or heeling for the seat to get soaked. Where the '08 and '09 hulls would remain dry, in the '11 hull in the same conditions you end up sitting in a puddle.
Don't get me wrong but if the only fix is handle removal I'll put up with it ...there are workarounds and it will be less of an issue with the new seats.
However as this problem has been known by Hobie since at least 2011 I'm surprised and disappointed that the only factory fix seems to be get rid of them entirely.

Yeah, we tried to get the foam handles modified. Two vendors and no luck with the design we had in mind. May still happen. Likely you saw the images Jacques posted about it some time ago?

_________________
Matt Miller
Former - Director of Parts and Accessory Sales
Warranty and Technical Support
Hobie Cat USA
(Retired 11/7/2022)

Yes, thanks Matt. I've been looking forward to the updated handles since 2012!


For those newer members that may be wondering why all the fuss about the handles, the post that the pic is from makes interesting reading. Especially in the light of Hobie's 'fix' for the water funneling handles on the Islands.
In all fairness to Hobie they have tried a solution but when the vendors had problems it looks like it just got too difficult.
viewtopic.php?f=71&t=44612

I happened to take a visiting friend out today, and took advantage of the opportunity to video the handle. Here is a 50 sec video of the handle while sailing in 1-1.5 ft chop.


Yes, there is funneling--first time I ever noticed it.

Keith

_________________
2015 AI 2, 2014 Tandem

"Any intelligent fool can make things bigger and more complex ... It takes a touch of genius and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction." A. Einstein

"Less is more" Anon

Keith,
Maybe the reason you never noticed it before is due to Florida's heat and high evaporation rates!
Here downunder I was aware of it on my first trip in my new '11 hull, which was in kayak mode.
In the calm conditions I hadn't undone the seatwell drains (as I'd never needed to before) and I was sitting in a puddle by the time I got to my destination. I was only paddling, yet due to the chop I was as wet as if I'd been sailing the AI at speed!