Leaking Forward Hatch

Matt,

In another post (http://www.hobiecat.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=69&t=46308&hilit=trim+lok+seal&start=15#p199501), you suggested that using a PA seal on an AI/TI was a problem in the past. Has the issue been resolved since the bulb is no longer glued to the slotted part?

Are you suggesting that the larger PA seal might work on the hatch cover of a TI?

Thanks,

scc

I believe it was just a tight fit and not really right for our production use.

_________________
Matt Miller
Former - Director of Parts and Accessory Sales
Warranty and Technical Support
Hobie Cat USA
(Retired 11/7/2022)

I am glad I am not the only one who thinks this way, IMO the Hobie AI's are excellent "Bay Sailers" and should be used that way unless the open ocean conditions are mild and predictable for short forays.
Where I live if you don't make it back into the harbour you will be wrecked on the steep surf beaches or rocky shores surrounding this area for 100 Kilometres.
Maybe the guys that are shedding AKA's are just expecting too much from their boats?

_________________
Fair Skies, Max.

I disagree with both you and fusioneng in one matter.
I will never accept a leaking front hatch.
It has nothing to do with how I use the AI.

The front hatch has a rather simple straight forward design and it's just a matter of performance when mounting/trimming if it ends up leaking. Everyone can fix it.

Hobies problem is to do it fast, cheap and repeatable with good quality control resulting in 100% non-leaking front hatches.
That is obviously not so easy.

best regards
thomas

This is certainly one of the most useful topics on the forum for me since a long time. I have been sailing a 2012 TI (with the old seals) and wondered all the while why I got so much water (15 - 30 liters) in my hull. In my location it usually blows offshore 8 - 12 knots starting late morning, so when I get back fishing it's like one hour sailing against the wind in 2 feet wind chop.

Last year I changed the seal of the front hatch with the new ones mentioned by Matt on this forum. Same result - I did not see a significant reduction of water intake.

All the while I wondered what the heck did i do wrong when changing the seals....only now I realize that some boats leak and some don't (no matter what year and what Hobie seal being used) because it simply seems to be impossible to have exactly the same hull dimensions at different batches during the rotomoulding process, in other words you can have good luck (no leaks) or bad luck (penty of water intake), depending on what batch you receive.

I still super enjoy the boat but due to the water intake issue I often decided not to go out further (and catch more fish) even though the conditions and wind was very much manageable because I felt uneasy knowing that on every wave I sail into more water will get into the boat.

I still think Hobie should offer a solution, either a custommade "shower cap" or some thicker better seals to be sold as an "offshore kitt" or something like that.

My 2 cents
Peace
Serbi

I did not say anything about Hatches, my 2007 Hatch is still working fine.

_________________
Fair Skies, Max.

Sorry skymax, actually you did not say anything about hatches.

But.

You DID quote fusioneng, who actually said: "I have owned 3 TI's now and all the front hatches leak some but 5-10 gallons is excessive. Normal in my boats anyway is a couple cups in light seas, and maybe as much as a gallon in rough seas (hot dogging)."

And.

You said: "I am glad I am not the only one who thinks this way"

Question1 : Do YOU accept water inside your hull?
Question2: Do YOU accept a leaking front hatch?

The real issue is not WHO said WHAT but what do we as end customers accept and expect.
Another question could be: What are we prepared do ourselves?
Or what do we expect Hobie should deliver?

About the twist & seal hatches:
This a more complicated design and I think not a Hobie design.
What I like is the flat integreated design.
And the easy open & close manoeuvering.
What I don't like is the need of maintenance.
Their sensibity for sand.
The water that stands over the seal and always get inside when I open the hatch.
But these hatches don't leak excessive amounts of water.
They are in security terms safe.

The front hatch is quite big and leakage could be unacceptable large, therefore this is a major concern for me.
And I think it is VERY doable to fix it.

Thats why I state that YOU DON'T HAVE TO ACCEPT ANY LEAKAGE TROUGH THE FRONT HATCH AT ALL.
Regardless how you use your boat. I will not change my mind about this.
Water should stay in the sea. All standard seakayks are designed to meet this demand.
This shouldn't be a debate at all.

best regards
thomas

Yes, a Hobie design. The previous (purchased) hatches leaked like sieves and you could lose the lid. Twist and Stow hatches are well worth the occasional wipe down and lubrication with silicone.

The forward hatches are a challenge as we see here. We will continue to review for the best solution for tuning or adding a "shower cap" type device. Engineers have been talking about it. Especially for those who sail like submarines.

_________________
Matt Miller
Former - Director of Parts and Accessory Sales
Warranty and Technical Support
Hobie Cat USA
(Retired 11/7/2022)

Matt's got our number

_________________

Hobie Island Sailing since 2006

I was wondering who he was talking about.

Keith

_________________
2015 AI 2, 2014 Tandem

"Any intelligent fool can make things bigger and more complex ... It takes a touch of genius and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction." A. Einstein

"Less is more" Anon

Ya know I've done lot of mods to my TI. With the mast mounted so far forward on the TI one of the biggest issues with us was nose diving, especially when running with extra sails downwind. The biggest change I made that made the most difference was to add the bow sprit then tilt my fore sails so they create lift on the bow. This was the single biggest improvement to the boat that I ever did.
Just thought I would share that.
Bob

Yeah lol I had to laugh at that.

_________________
Fair Skies, Max.

I do long trips with lots of gear, water and food. Last summer one trip 250 miles over 18 days.
This year (end of june) I will go around Orust (big island on swedish west coast) about 70 miles.

All weight on board doesn't exactly help the boat flying.

As one of the properties of the old AI is a tendency to dive (I have no trouble with that!), I can't do so much about the submarining. It's a part of the ball.
But I don't do it on purpose...

best regards
thomas

With no rocker, the old AI is designed to dive. Yes, not much you can do about that except be sure your front hatch does not leak--which is the topic of this thread.

@Fusioneng--Bob, when we all get our reacher sail, we won't have to worry about diving with the old AI. I believe the AI 2, with its extra volume up front, has little tendency to dive.

Keith

_________________
2015 AI 2, 2014 Tandem

"Any intelligent fool can make things bigger and more complex ... It takes a touch of genius and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction." A. Einstein

"Less is more" Anon

Well Hobie thinks they have solved my leaking forward hatch issue. They sent me another front hatch just like the one that was installed at the factory!!!! This new hatch and seal leaks just as much as the old one. I would say they are not listening to my problem the hatch does not match the hull, two different shapes. The forward hatch needs to be redesigned by those intelligent engineers at Hobie or redesign the hull. RG