New dagger?

Judging from the images in the latest catalog it seems that there is a new dagger board (http://www.hobiecat.com/support/pdfs/ka ... _33-45.pdf). Look at page 38 (I wanted to place a pic of it, but my pc keeps crashing when I try...).

It is black, the logo is placed differently but much more important, it's shape is changed. It seems to have a bigger surface area, especially near the tip (more square ended). Although the difference is quite subtle, it might mean that it helps the AI point a little higher and it might make raking the dagger a bit more efficcient (for raking the bigger surface has a bit more effect in putting the centre of lateral resistence backward, so it should compensate better for whether helm).

Has anyone seen it in real yet? Anyone in the position to compare it with the well known grey dagger? Does it make a noticeble difference?

Matt, if you mind commenting on this, is it correct that there is a new dagger? Is it about the same length and weight and still fibre glass?

If it makes a noticable difference, this item will definately be added to the (already much too long according to some) wish list...

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skua

I finally managed to do the pic (ouch!)
The old pic is from http://www.hobiecat.com/support/pdfs/ka ... _27-37.pdf page 32.

The differences are quite subtle; I am possibly hoping too much of it...

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skua

You are correct. We re-designed the dagger to have more surface area and be more durable. It is now injected fiber filled nylon rather than fiberglass.

This board offers a performance increase. Better up wind.

Started shipping this version sometime this past summer.

_________________
Matt Miller
Former - Director of Parts and Accessory Sales
Warranty and Technical Support
Hobie Cat USA
(Retired 11/7/2022)

Here are some more pics showing the differences. The new board is the same length but a little fuller at the tip as you can see here, and virtually the same weight as the old. You may also see some of the small chips on my old board -- the new version is much more rugged and trouble free in that regard.



Here's a side by side comparison of how they look in the full down position under the boat:


I took the two boards out together with the Adventure and small sail, feeling that the lighter monohull would be more sensitive to any differences. After switching back and forth several times, the new board definitely had a better bite upwind with less leeway. It also slowed the heeling moment slightly -- not a factor with the AI, but a plus in the Adventure mode with gusts.

There are a couple of things it doesn't do as well though. The new board is a tad thinner than the old and with its ribbed top, also has less contact surface in the well (see below):


For those who pivot the board, with less friction in the well it is less inclined to hold its position. Likewise, when retracting the board part way, you have to use your knee against it to keep it jambed in place. The old board, a little narrower (front to rear), could be cocked back half way out. Having said this, I didn't experience any rattling in the well or other problems.

I think the new board is definitely a superior performer overall and have switched over to it. With all you fast sailors out there I need every advantage I can get!

I bought mine in late September and got the old dagger board

aggravating...

to clarify that I'm not just having a moan - after reading this forum I had the dealer check on model upgrades to see if I should hold the purchase for a couple of weeks and I was told that the message from Hobie was that the only changes were the seat pegs (which the dealer is sending FOC when they arrive). If the dagger board change was actually notified I would have made arrangements because I bought the boat to sale. When I add the Lowrance GPS that's basically made for use in the US not here I start to feel a bit third world ...

Love the boat but really ...

Glad that's off my chest

First it was the rudder pins on my "2010" AI that were not the improved black ones and now its the dagger board that is not the improved version! I specifically asked my dealer if the 2010 AI I bought on 10-16-09 had all of the updates and improvements about which I had read on this forum and I was told it did. Matt responded to my complaint about the rudder pins that "this is no big deal" and that Hobie will replace the rudder pins with black ones if I contact my dealer. So, how about it Matt, will Hobie replace my dagger board too? And I repeat, what other 2010 improvements are missing from "2010" AI's?

These things are really production changes... not considered upgrades or even related to the model year change over. They are "running" changes that are very difficult to track. If you really want the plastic dagger, I am sure we can find a home for the original glass fiber board. Check in with your dealer for a trade. We will do it for you.

_________________
Matt Miller
Former - Director of Parts and Accessory Sales
Warranty and Technical Support
Hobie Cat USA
(Retired 11/7/2022)

Doggone it Hobie, what's the matter with you guys? Either you're not making changes fast enough (as in rudder pins) and your conscientious customers are rightfully clamoring for better products. Or you announce the changes ahead of time (i.e. Trax wheels) and your valued clientele is dissatisfied because they just bought the old version immediately before the change. But worst of all, you make these silly running changes (like daggerboards) and catch everyone by surprise, whereas it would be much better to wait for the next model year so you can make a proper announcement. Finally, any dealers found guilty of not being properly up to date should be stripped of their franchise.

Obviously you need to get your act together here. You shouldn't be making any announcements -- ignorance is bliss. You should also get rid of your engineering staff -- they're always making your products obsolete and contributing to the outlandish cost. Finally, your customer satisfaction policy is entirely too generous -- you're breeding pampered customers who expect too much. This is not good for the economy, as it undermines the very foundations of capitalism!

What Roadrunner said! After the way I've been treated by some of the big name companies over various consumer items, I'm blown away by Hobie's ongoing commitment to look after their existing customers. Maybe building up a huge amount of "good will" capital is what capitalism should be all about. I know I can't praise Hobie enough to my friends (and potential future Hobie customers).

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Thank you.

Matt and Roadrunner, thanks for your replies. This definately clears this up for me. (Roadrunner, you must have a library full of knowledge and pics to instantly address questions like these, amazing!)

Concerning the discussion that followed: I agree with Roadrunner. The fact that it can happen that Hobie has improved the product after you have bought it can sometimes feel bad (especially in parts of the world, like Europe, where you risk to get the older stuff), but nevertheless Hobies policy of silently improving things obviously must be valued strongly positive!

To get back on topic, do more people have experiences with the new daggerboard (in comparison with the old one)? Roadrunners findings certainly sound promising and I am interested to hear experiences of others as well!

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skua

I noticed the plastic daggerboard at my dealers the other day. My first impressions were that I was glad I had the fibreglass versions. It seemed heavier and looked cheap compared to the polished, very smooth finish of the original.
Now after reading Roadrunners review above (thanks again RR! ) I am interested in getting one. I sail my AI as an Adventure a lot, with the small sail and daggerboard only (drive out) and have come to rely on the stability it gives at all points of sail. It is a great alternative to Sidekicks.
The first daggerboard I bought was the Adventure option- white with a part #79500001 and priced at $72.60
The AI smoke daggerboard part #79502001 was priced at $187.07! It seemed identical apart from colour.
A question for Hobie (Aus?):
What price is the new plastic daggerboard?

I'll bet that the new dagger board hasn't even arrived at my dealers yet (the seat pegs haven't) so the chances of replacing aren't good. Frankly it's almost embarrassing to ask. Hope you don't mind if I quote you.

Why exactly is Aust so far behind? Sure constant improvements are great but not when we're buying 6 months behind everyone else. I don't care who the company is it is not good policy to sell outdated products. It's certainly not good policy to sell 'new' models that are behind the production run because it's not in the US. Might have worked 20 years ago but all it does now is create bad feelings. It also ignores the fact that we're the best salespeople. I don't think I've ever launched the boat without drawing an audience and a prospective customer. The discussion is either enthusiastic endorsement or 'great boat but be careful they'll try to sell you an outdated model'. Just plain not good for business.

ditto that chrisj...and I would far rather see ongoing development and the one-of-a-kind customer service we get than a stagnant product with little support.....mind you a lot of the development comes from feedback thru this forum and its because of the commitment to looking after existing customers that Hobie have such customer loyalty.....feedback through forum, ongoing development and good customer support...way to go....all common sense!