My wife got me an AI for Christmas......a question on speed

I've lusted for an AI for awhile and rented a few to see how much I would like it (silly question). I've had a Hobie Mirage Sport with sail for the last four years and have loved it (gladly my wife isn't making me sell that on eBay to subsidize the AI). I just had a question or two on speed. I see a lot of discussion on the forum about SAILING speeds, so I think I have a pretty good handle on that, but I DON'T see much about paddling speeds to be expected. So here's my questions:

1) What is a comfortable paddling cruising speed for the boat in hull mode only?
2) If you find yourself in a situation where you have to paddle with the amas OUT, how fast can you go in aircraft-carrier mode. Pedal speed?
3) And likewise with amas IN in barge-mode how fast can you paddle? Pedal?

Thanks.........I'm asking this because I'm thinking of making a long trip down parts of the Erie Canal or Trent Severn Canal systems and I'd like to do it with the amas, but there may be many situations in that environment when I can't use sails and have to look at how crippled I'd be pedaling or paddling dragging those two along. Thanks

After getting out a few times pedaling in full AI mode (NOT aircraft-carrier or barge mode! ), I can pedal at about 4 mph steady for an hour or more, hours with short rests. Up to 8 mph in a sprint for a min. or two.

I paddle in when landing, and it's not fast paddling. Adrenaline from larger shore break helps.

I haven't used the boat in the Adventure mode much lately so others would be better answering that, but it IS faster.

So congrats on your new ride, but give her some respect! (aircraft-carrier mode)

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Hobie Island Sailing since 2006

Welcome deacm!
I can pedal my AI in Adventure mode (kayak only) and comfortably average 7-8km/h depending on currents and winds and up to 10km/h short sprints.
I can paddle in Adventure mode with the drive pulled, plug in and rudder up at an average of 6-7km/h.
Pedalling the AI with ama out and mast up but no wind I can average around 6km/h.
I've never tried any distance with the ama in.
I am using Turbo's which I've found to be on average slightly more than 1km/h faster than ST's and at a slower cadence.
For standard fins take 2km/h off those Turbo averages and increase the cadence considerably!

You don't want to try to move the boat with the amas folded in. They fold in and down at an angle and the submerged aft sections of the amas create a huge amount of drag. It is possible to fold the boat and maneuver to a nearby dock, but that's about it.

I have only pedaled in Adventure mode a few times. My observation is that in calm conditions, the amas don't create much drag and you can pedal at 2 knots with little effort. 3 knots is max sustainable cruise in calm conditions w/amas attached and extended. I don't think the boat is really much faster in Adventure mode. In chop and wind, the amas are like brakes and pedaling sux, so put out your sail!

Although others here seem to agree with this conclusion, I don't. When I bring my full AI to the lake to sail, I like to combine paddling and pedaling to do so. Since for me paddling with the ama's out does not work (too little space for me to make a serious stroke), I paddle with the amas folded. But not backwards (that is slow, and all chop comes in your lap). I have the amas folded forwards with a stop added. (if they are fully forward, they cause too much dragg). Obviously paddling still isn't ideal, because stroke has to be wide that way. Also the dragg is worse then with the ama's out, but not that much, thus for me paddling is still quicker because of the more efficient stroke I can make.
Paddling only I do only for short periods, to pass fields of weeds or shallow waters. When I combine paddling and pedaling I do around 8 km/h cruising (same speed as when I pedal + paddle my oasis solo). I do 7 when pedaling only with the ama's out (but I have some problems with my knees, so I have to restrict myself). Always with rudder up and mast down (easy enough to put mast up / down on the water).

Paddling hull only is over 6 km/h, paddling/pedaling around 9 km/h.

If you have good knees, it probably doesn't make too much sense to pedal/paddle with the amas folded up. But I have found that if you do it properly, it is roughly as quick as an oasis solo, which isn't bad at all!
Personally, I do this on flat water only. For in good chop, the folded amas tend to bounce and bump, and I don't think that's good.

Good luck with your trip!

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skua

Thanks all for the helpful information. I am surprised that it paddles/pedals that fast with amas out. It's killing me here because we have 15 inches of snow, the kayak is hanging from the garage ceiling and I can't try any of your suggestions out ! I have some follow-on questions:

1. I am amazed that you find you can go almost as fast with the amas out as with them off the boat. I would have thought that the extra weight and drag would have not allowed that, so that's very cool. Although, Tom you indicate only 2 knots per hour with amas out and the others are around 6-7 knots. Did I read that wrong?

2. Skua, since my kayak isn't assembled yet, how did you fabricate a 'stop' such that you could lock the amas in a FORWARD position. And since you said you shouldn't position them COMPLETELY forward, how many inches/cm's between the hull and the amas do you position it when they are forward.

Thanks all

deacm, that's 6-7 km/h (= ~3.5 knots or 4 mph). That's with moderately hard sustained pedalling. Tom quotes up to 3 knots, so that's reasonably consistent with what others have posted. Also, the boat feels substantially faster with the amas removed. I haven't measured it, but I reckon Stringy's figure of 8 km/h (4.3 knots) cruising speed is on the money.

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In my opinion, the AI handles and rides quite differently with the amas off. Of course cruising speed depends on distance, conditioning and the degree of tuning and fin adjustment with the Drive.

Comparing the AI (hull only) with the Sport, I average about 1.0 MPH faster on a one hour fast cruise (pedaling w/ Turbofins, calm water). The speed difference against chop becomes greater as conditions worsen. You'll also find that the AI rides much smoother and quieter.

If you're pedaling any distance with amas mounted, I think speed and range is generally better with the amas out and locked. In this position they are aligned horizontally and vertically with the hull for minimal drag. But for short distances or narrow locations, retracted amas work just fine. In fact, I often prefer to launch and recover in the "compact" mode before and after sailing.

Other than exercise, the paddle has more of a specialized practical value (fending off, backing up, use as emergency rudder, operating in kelp, sea weed rapids or extremely shallow water). As long as pedaling is an option, it will be significantly superior to paddling for propulsion with most people IMO.

Chris already answered on the km/hr/knots/mph thing, but I should point out that my speed numbers are estimates of average speed. I have only had the GPS along and turned on while pedaling and not sailing once, and my wife and I were just taking a relaxing little cruise. When going slow, the GPS mostly said 2 knots, more or less. When cruising faster, around 3 knots. That seemed to be a speed we could both maintain with only moderate effort. 2 knots requires almost no effort. This was all with amas attached and extended.

So how fast will an AI pedal? 2-3 knots with me pedaling, maybe 4 if a thunderstorm is chasing me. I really leaned on the pedals one time and got up over 5 knots on the GPS, and that was before I got turbofins. That was at a sprint pace that I could only maintain for a minute at most.

Hi deacm,

For the "stop" I used a few bits of pvc pipe with a soft plastic "cap". I used black ductape to make it look inconspicuous. See pic.



It is actually 3/4" piece of pvc-pipe with a 5/8" in it. The latest just fits into the triangular shape hole in the piece of aluminium that connects the crossbar to the hull.

With the help of the cable tie the stop prevents the akas from swinging further forward than a certain point (I use a rvs carabiner to hook to the back of the ama's to keep them in that position).



You can see in the pics that the ama's still are free from the main hull. You can also see that they are not parallel, but the extra dragg this causes is still very managable. It's my impression that it is quite a bit better than having the ama's backward, but I have not done exact measurements to check.

These are the best pics I have available now, I hope they are clear enough (my AI hull is now covered under snow ).

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skua

Hmm - yet another little modification that could be useful

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Mickey
2016 AI Hibiscus
purchased NEW Nov 2021 - My 5th
Adventure Island Sailing since 2008

Folding forward would definitely be less drag than folding aft from what I can see. When folded aft, the amas are mostly submerged and tucked under the hull at quite an angle.

I routinely launch off the trailer, get aboard, paddle to deeper water, unfold, put down the rudder, and put in the Mirage Drive. Recovery is the reverse, so each time I'm paddling a little bit with a folded boat, no rudder, no drive. It is a bit like paddling a chunk of styrofoam, but with more drag. If I had further to go in folded mode, I would do it with amas folded forward. I usually just have to go a boatlength or two, so I just thrash my way along with the paddle until I can get the drive and rudder down.

Skua ! Great input. Thanks a lot for the photos.

SKUA: I noticed from your post that it looks like you run the canals with your Hobie. If so, do you have an email address (or phone) that I could talk to you about that? I just got back from renting a canal boat on the English Canals and kept thinking about doing the same thing on an Adventure Island. I think you can send me a 'private message' via this forum under my profile. I could not find a way to send YOU a private message under your profile however. Thank you.

deacm, a bit late (vacation!) but I send you an email. You probably know it already, but this post might interest you as well: viewtopic.php?f=70&t=25178

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skua