Rudder Retro-Fit Kit comments...

I was one of the first Tandem owners to experience 'rudder pop-up' and loss
of starboard steering (and to inform Hobie and my dealer about the problem).
The rudder has to seat completely forward in its 'clip slot' to provide full
starboard steering. If the rudder does not seat fully, it tends to easily pop
out with loss of steering.
The first 'fix' was 'to pull the 'down' rudder spectra line as tight as possible'. The problem with that...is the rudder up/down lines were
lead asymmetrically into the rudder housing...when I had the lines fully tight...
the asymmetric pull was so strong, the tiller was locked down.

The new double-headed rudder pin brings the rudder lines into symmetric alignment! As tight as I can pull on the down line...I still have rudder control.
GREAT DESIGN FIX...THANKS HOBIE!

Since the first sailing, my Tandem rudder would not completely seat into its
slot clip. I ended up removing one of the rudder bolts and through bolting a sacrificial nylon bolt. I had to insert and remove the bolt every time I went out.

The bungee rudder line fix is not a complete success, tho'.
The retro-fit instructions say that the 3/16 inch bungee feed holes through the housing should be as far forward as can be drilled.
After completing the drilling, I fed the bungee through the new holes and noticed that there is ZERO clearance in the rudder 'slot' for anything! The
bungee acts as a 3/16 inch 'bumper' on the forward edge of the rudder.
If you bring the rudder down into the slot...the forward edge of the rudder
is kept from making contact with the front of the slot by the bungee. The rudder is thus pushed back by 3/16 inch. This distance is nearly 1/2 of the whole coverage that the slot clip holds the rudder in place.
I could pop the rudder out of the slot with a gentle hand slap to the forward edge of the rudder. After all of the experiments that I and other Tandem owners have done about rudder pop out...I know that the only way the rudder
will stay locked into the clip is be fully seated into the slot.
My 'fix of the fix' was to drill a second set of bungee holes 3/4 inch rear of the
recommended holes (still in the 'thicker' portion of the housing). The new position of the bungee puts the bungee against the side of the rudder rather than in front of it. Now when I push the rudder into the slot, it seats completely forward. In addition, the bungee also acts as a 'friction' pad against the side of the rudder, also helping to keep the rudder from popping out.
Because the bungee retards the dropping of the rudder into the slot, it takes
a heavy and fast down pull to get the rudder to seat completely. But at least
the rudder is completely down.
Most of the time I still have to hand push the rudder into the slot...but at least the rudder is fully seated.

At least, now, if I hit something...the rudder will pop out of the slot and I can
push the rudder back into place...the bungee replaces my sacrificial bolt and will save me time resetting the rudder.

As a temporary fix, the bungee is adequate.

I replaced the drum bolt and found minimum wear on the spectra line (not enough to have to replace it...I will keep the kit replacement line for use if needed in the future).

Both of the rudder housing anchor bolts were slightly loose...I replaced them with the new 'locktite' covered bolts.

One of the three drain plug o-rings was broken...I replaced all three with the new thicker o-rings.

Overall, thank you Hobie for the retro-fit kit.

But, as mentioned above...the rudder mechanism really needs to be replaced with something better. I hope that the replacement will be ready for the next sailing season.

Tidalwave,

I just finished my upgrade then read your posting. I have bad news for you, I think you drilled the holes in the wrong place. I even dragged my trailer back out to double check the rudder.

I too have been using the 1/4 inch bolt to hold my rudder in place before the upgrade but now with the bungy attached the rudder seats in its slot perfectly. The bungy does not get in the way at all.

Now I'm glad I took and hour to do what I thought should be a 20 minute job.

_________________
Jerry D.
St. Johns, Florida
2010 TI
2008 AI

I photo-captured an image from the Hobie 'movie' of where the recommended
bungee holes are to be drilled.
After inserting the bungee through the holes...I checked the hole placement
versus both the captured photo and the photo included in the kit.
My bungee holes and bungee position were essentially identical with the photos!

Before installing the recommended bungee...I looked at the slot. There was essentially no space between the rudder and the starboard side of the slot...including the forward starboard corner. When I installed the bungee in the recommended location, the bungee sat tightly in the starboard vertical corner. However, since the rudder-slot fit was very tight with no room between the slot and the rudder, there was not room from the forward edge of the rudder to fit against the slot vertical face with the 3/16 bungee also in the slot! The bungee held the rudder out about 1/8 inch on the slot clip. I was back to where I was before the nylon bolt...with the rudder not being held fully by the clip.

'Dosjers'...a question...did you ever have the rudder pop-up problem?
I did from the get-go. I always felt that my rudder was slightly different in manufacturing than others that did not pop-out. When dropped down, my rudder was always about 1/2 way out of the slot clip. My rudder would never sit completely flush against the face of the slot without very high tension on the spectra down lines. When I installed the sacrificial nylon bolt...I had to apply pressure to the rudder to make it fit all the way in, flush with the slot face. So I am wondering whether or not the forward face of my rudder is different than yours, enough so that there was not any room for the bungee to sit to the starboard right side of the slot and not interfere with the rudder.

Your post is very similar to the first posts I received last Spring. When I first complained about rudder pop-up...I was told I was doing doing something wrong, when dropping the rudder. Finally, after other owners also started to complain about pop-up, I was told that the simple solution to keep the rudder from popping up was to apply more tension to the down lines. When I replied that, then I had a jammed tiller...I was subsequently told that I was 'doing something wrong again'.
It wasn't until Hobie got back to me and told me that the asymmetric line feed combined with high tension would lock my tiller...did I finally feel that I wasn't stupid and not following instructions.
Please don't assume just because the Hobie solution worked for you...and it didn't for me...that it is because I don't know how to follow instructions!
I was getting frustrated enough with advice from members and Hobie which didn't work...that I was just about getting ready to sell my Tandem for whatever I could get for it. But my dealer convinced me to wait and see what
fixes Hobie might come up with.

There will be, as promised, a replacement rudder assembly by next spring.

I just reviewed the instructions.

The holes are in the lower / forward / right side (starboard) corner of the rudder housing... from the front just behind the rudder pin... and then exiting out the right side of the housing.

The shock cord should NOT be in the area where the rudder comes down and locks. If you drill at the wrong angle... it is possible that the bungee holes could pierce the area. That would be a problem.

These images should help clarify the drilling locations:


The drill holes are just behind the rudder pin


Out the starboard side



There should be no bungee in the area where the rudder seats.


We can send you another housing with the correct routing if needed.

_________________
Matt Miller
Former - Director of Parts and Accessory Sales
Warranty and Technical Support
Hobie Cat USA
(Retired 11/7/2022)

Tidalwave,

I understand your frustration but to answer your question, yes I had a problem with my rudder popping up making stearing very difficult. I could not get my rudder to stay in the proper position using the rudder down cable. I even tried holding it in place while I pulled the down cable and cleated it off and it still popped up.

I just went out and drug the ^%$ trailer out again and took some pictures for you.

Here is the view from the starboard side with the rudder up. Sorry it's blurry but I think you can see the bungy cord and please note the hole slightly above it. That was the hole I drilled for my 1/4 inch bolt temporary fix.



Here is the view from the port side. This is the side that the rudder fits into. Please note that you can't see the bungy so how will it stop the rudder from going all the way in?



The next 2 pics show the rudder in the down position with the bungy holding it in.





I never said you couldn't follow instructions in my first email I was just trying to help. But now I'll say that unless you have a one of a kind special rudder on your boat you did not install the upgrade correctly. I would welcome pictures of your install.

My last sugestion is to take Matt up on his offer to send you another housing.

_________________
Jerry D.
St. Johns, Florida
2010 TI
2008 AI

Someone show the guy in the rudder fix video what a spanner is...

_________________
Sail it like you stole it!

Mate... take heart. The TI is a new product, with much greater stresses than the AI. Yes, it has some issues, especially in the rudder area. So too have some great big maxi yachts!

But rest assured, the Hobie people really do pay attention to these forums... Matt Miller I'm sure regularly passes on our observations and comments to Engineering, and even Doug Skidmore jumped in whilst Matt was in China... and he's the President of Hobie!

Personally, being of Swiss origin, I do like things to work like 'clockwork', but as a realist, I can understand that not everything goes as originally planned and tested (I'm a computer programmer).

However I have full confidence in Hobie's apparent philosophy of fixing stuff that doesn't work as well as they planned. So much so, that I recommended the TI to one of my best mates, pointed him to some of the issues... and Hobie's reaction... and he bought one too.

Fixes for something as critical as the rudder don't come quickly: engineers come up with designs, prototypes have to be built and tested, all before they can manufacture and release a permanent solution. But it will happen.

If the sailing kayak isn't your thing, sell your TI - you won't have any problem doing that! But otherwise, until Hobie releases the final fix, rest assured that if you post any issues you're having with the 'temporary' fix, or other problems, there are many dedicated members here (as well as Hobie staff) that are ready to help you!

_________________
Cheers, Max ● TI: the "Yella Terra" ● Website: www.MadYakker.com ● YouTube: madyakkermax

Crikey, just saw that you're in CLEARWATER... a US location well known to many right around the world... phew, that's the MN one, not the FL one!

To Matt and Hobie,
Will the existing gudgeon remain on the hull for the permanent fix or will it be replaced later?
I suppose my temporary fix kit is on its way to Sweden. US-HCCP 0144 D010

_________________
Bo Karlberg
Taby
Sweden
Sail Tandem Island No P1787 in the Stockholm Archipelago (some 40,000 islands and rocks)

At this point in the process... It looks as though the gudgeon will not be changed. The new systems are being designed to fit it.

_________________
Matt Miller
Former - Director of Parts and Accessory Sales
Warranty and Technical Support
Hobie Cat USA
(Retired 11/7/2022)

Dear Hobie community and Matt:

I have recently installed the TI rudder upgrade kit and would like to report the following problems:
I dutifully installed the kit although I have not experienced the severity of the problems outlined by others in the forum regarding rudder control problems. Yes, the boat does turn to the starboard with more difficulty but I addressed this by tightening down the line on the starboard side. I also have not run the boat in winds above 20 knots or consistent heavy wave action. Prior to installing the upgrade the down and up action for the twist and stow rudder worked perfectly (the clip always engaged the notch with a smart down pull and moderate tension--and the up control flipped the rudder as expected. However after installing the upgrade I found that the rudder clip would not engage the notch and once I manually locked the rudder clip, it could not be raised up with the twist and stow system. The steering was improved with no extra effort required to make a starboard turn. The new rudder pin seemed to be a looser fit and allowed some rocking of the rudder whereas the older pin was a tighter fit. The bungee lock down arrangement worked well (it is located exactly where the video shows). The bottom line for me is that the new system corrected a minor rudder stiffness issue (for my particular boat) at the cost of losing the convenience of the twist and stow feature. For those taking these boats out in more demanding conditions the fixes should be a significant improvement. My perception is that the new rudder pin notch has solved the steering stiffness problem but with the change in the angles of the spectra lines has significantly decreased the amount of force transmitted to the twist and stow feature, making in inoperable.

None of the changes should effect the normal Twist and Stow function unless the bungee is engaged (must be released to raise rudder).

Check the drum bolt tension. This is a typical fix for a rudder that will not engage the hook. Loosen the bolt.

Be sure the bungee does not appear in this area:

_________________
Matt Miller
Former - Director of Parts and Accessory Sales
Warranty and Technical Support
Hobie Cat USA
(Retired 11/7/2022)

Although I didn't experience (or realize) issues with my rudder, I went ahead and installed it to be safe side. During the process, it gave me the opportunity to inspect the steering connections and find some "slop" in my rudder controls. I'm thinking the reason why I didn't experience issues with my rudder could possibly be due to not being able to completely turn my rudder to its maximum turning position. Not having any experience with another AI or TI, I did not realize this "quirk." After installing the upgrade, I was able to tighten my steering cables and tested turning and stowing away my rudder while on dry dock. Except for having to loosen the drum bolt a bit to allow the twist and stow to work again, the install went rather smoothly. One suggestion that I can make at this point is to use a better knot when splicing your rudder line. A couple of half hitches seems a bit weak for such a critical connection. I would prefer to use a blood knot instead. I'm considering purchasing some spectra to replace the entire length and do away with splicing. I have yet to take it out for a test run. But so far so good.

Aloha,

cliffs2yak

My thoughts echo yours. Had my line needed to be spliced, I would have used a blood knot - or barrel knot - depending on your source. However, my port control line was already replaced earlier in the summer by my dealer after it had snapped in half, and the new line was still in good shape.

_________________
Mitch

2010 Tandem Island
2010 Revolution
Chesapeake Bay and Eastern Shore

My sailing blog
Our sailing videos

I just sailed my TI today for the first time with the new rudder fixes in place. On land I could tell the new rudder pin made a huge difference, however, I was a little more skeptical about the bungee working as advertised. To my great satisfaction everything worked flawlessly. This was the first time I've sailed without incident or frustration from the steering not being responsive and difficult to move. Finally, the boat performs as it should! Granted, it is a pain in the butt to attach the bungee while in the boat. I look forward to the permanent fix.