Plastic rudder pins. Is this a good idea?

Love my TI, a great, versitile sailing machine however I think they may have gone a bit plastic mad. I was sailing in strong winds when I suddenly lost my steering, I looked back and saw my rudder flopping around, quickly I put my hands in the water to steer the craft back to the beach where I met a fellow TI owner. He showed me where the replacement pin was and it was easily changed. He himself had made a custom steel pin as he had some problems too. I also noticed that the steering had been hard until I put some oil between the pin and mount as plastic on plastic naturally grips. All other yachts I've seen have metal pins so why are they plastic? I've also had a cracked plastic bracket that holds the metal outrigger supports (not sure of the technical name). Can't really see why this is so apart from making the TI marginally lighter.

Wow! I don't even want to comment on this one, other than to say steel rudder pins are stupid. Plastic rudder pins have got nothing to do with saving a couple ounces.

What yr is your TI? Do you have the new vertical rudder or the "twist-n-stow" rudder?

Keith

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2015 AI 2, 2014 Tandem

"Any intelligent fool can make things bigger and more complex ... It takes a touch of genius and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction." A. Einstein

"Less is more" Anon

When the hull of the kayak/craft, the strongest point is plastic, the wisest decision is to make anything attached to it as strong or weaker so as to ensure the integrity of the hull at all times. Better to lose a rudder pin than a broken rudder or worse, gapping hole in the hull.

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Mark
Tandem Island- 2013
2 - Sports - 2014

Without question, replacing the standard plastic pin with a stronger one is folly. I fit a new pin every time I do a big trip, keeping the old one as a spare.

I think you will find that by far the most likely cause of a broken pin is not pulling the rudder "down" line as hard as you can (I use >both hands< and make sure the line is cleated firmly). It is absolutely critical that the rudder blade cannot swing back, as this will load up the tiller to insane levels, directly leading to a broken rudder pin.

Similarly, the aka brace bolt is plastic, designed to shear if you run an ama into a jetty or other craft. replacing this plastic bolt with a stronger one could result in much more severe and costly damage. On long trips, I run lines from the mast base out to the padeyes on the amas, so even if the brace pin snaps, the hull cannot violently swing inwards causing a capsize.

Bottom line, Hobie knows what it is doing!

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Tony Stott
2012 Tandem Island "SIC EM" with Hobie spinnaker

Thanks for the advice guys on the sacrificial aspect of using plastic rather than causing damage to the hull. If you hit an object with the rudder wouldn't there be a fair amount of give in the steering strings? Maybe hobie could put some kind of spring mechanism between the rudder and mount. Wouldn't want to be out in the ocean trying to change a rudder pin. My TI is a 2014 model Regards Randell

I probably have the reward for the most rudder pins broken, I have ran the dealer out of stock several times. I eventually analyzed and figured out why I was breaking so many rudder pins 95% of my failures were self induced. Almost every rudder failure was a result of touching the bottom, usually during launch and retrieval I would drop the rudder and it might touch the bottom, usually when turning the boat around to launch then jump on board. If just the bottom joint cracks or breaks it's almost impossible to detect until you are way out (one indicator is the rudder sometimes it becomes difficult to steer just before it breaks completely, which can be hours or days later). I'm pretty sure there is nothing you can do with the rudder when out on the water that will cause it to break (if you go out with a known good pin it's very unlikely it will break while your out ( that's why a lot of guys replace their pin often, personally I don't replace mine every time but I darn sure pull it out and look at it). Also nearly all my rudder pin breaks were from the side and back, almost never from hitting the bottom while moving forward (the strings do help some on impact)
I don't recommend putting any oil on the rudder pin, the oil will attract sand and grit, also oil attacks most plastics, the pin is made from Delrin plastic which is water loving and also self lubricating, just keeping it clean and well rinsed off with fresh water is best (same with rudder).
The nylon sheer bolt in the aka brace is not likely to break under normal conditions (unless your an extreme user like me). If you search this forum you will find several tricks that people do to strengthen their aka braces so if a sheer bolt does break, the AMA hull will not fold in and cause a capsize, but still gives you protection if you do happen to hit a dock where further (way more expensive) damage doesn't occur. I have sheered and broken many aka nylon bolts and can pretty much trace the problem to some of the stupid stuff I do (like pulling the boat onto shore by the AMA's), under normal use on the water it is not likely to break.
There are a lot of TI's out there, as they have been in service for a while now and are used for many different things (I'm on my 3rd TI now myself). They really are well designed and thought out.
Hope this helps
Bob

I'm one of the guys who does not pay a lot of attention to the rudder pin. It works. I've had my 2011 AI for about 2.5 yrs and only ONE rudder pin has broken--it happened at the very end of a camp trip as I was sailing back into the very shallow launch area. Didn't lift the rudder. Didn't hear or feel anything. After landing, I noticed my rudder was dangling off the end of the of the boat.

My experience with the breakaway rudder pin on both my current AI and my previous 2007 AI, is that if you have a rudder pin which has not broken--don't change it. Now, if I were like Bob and launch from ramps regularly, and occasionally bump my rudder on the ramp coming or going, perhaps, I would check it regularly and even change it regularly as Tony does. On the 2007 AI, the rudder pins were much more prone to break, so I sometimes changed a working pin, hoping that a new pin would last on a long camping trip. But, new pins sometimes broke immediately--a quality control problem, I suppose. In any case, my philosophy on pins is "if it ain't broke, don't fool with it."

Keith

_________________
2015 AI 2, 2014 Tandem

"Any intelligent fool can make things bigger and more complex ... It takes a touch of genius and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction." A. Einstein

"Less is more" Anon

I'm very surprised your Hobie Dealer didn't inform you on such matters when he briefed you on your new boat.