Roads & Maritime NSW Australia inspector TI passenger limit

Hi guys

Just out on my Hobie Tandem Island at Brooklyn NSW this morning. Had my mate, his wife and 2 boys (age 7 & 10 years) and myself on my kayak (total 5 persons), all reasonably slim and total weight ~265kg.

It was calm water, I had planned an easy journey running with the tide in both directions and we all were wearing jackets. It was a busy boat ramp being easter weekend.

Anyway there was a Roads and Maritime inspector going through all the boats as they went down the ramp, he saw my kayak and trampolines and said that I cannot take more than 2 people on that vessel, that it wasn't licensed to carry more than 2.

I said no, the centre kayak bouyancy alone is 280kg and all combined we were 270kg body weight let alone the amas with trampolines. He said if you go out you'll get a fine from the water police as it's overloaded. I disagreed, and the Water Police cruised by a bit later without any interest and the day out was enjoyed by all.

Any ideas about the truth of the matter from people in Australia?

thanks
Adam

I suspect that it would be hard to defend a charge of overloading, because of that CE label behind the mast. However, I think you would be incredibly unlucky to get pinged for it.

That Roads & Maritime officer actually had the power to book you, and the lack of his own action says it all. Deep down, he realised that you were responsible, with all wearing PFDs etc.

I have had heaps of interaction with Roads & Maritime officers, asking lots of questions about Islands in general and my TI specifically (one even offered to launch his RIB 30kms away at Smiths Lake if we were going to try using the temporary opening to the ocean there- just to keep a friendly eye on us if we needed assistance).

I had asked about the confusing safety equipment requirements in the NSW handbook, which actually state that an off-the-beach kayak only needs a PFD, unless there is room for more gear (WTF???). I carry pretty well the equivalent of AYF Category 3 safety gear (VHF, PLB, chartplotter, Navionics app on phone, flares, anchor, sea anchor, sea marker dye, hand bearing compass, bilge pump, first aid kit, space blankets, up to 85 metres of anchor rode, torches, masthead light, safety knives, even mask and flippers etc).

No R&M officer or water police officer is going to give you a hard time if you can demonstrate that you take safety seriously, especially compared to the many tinnie operators who had mouldy foam PFDs stuffed in the bilge under the full Esky.

BTW, I have measured that my 2012 TI amas will support 150kgs EACH, while pre 2015 AI amas could support just under 100kgs EACH. This information might deter someone intent on giving you a hard time......

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Tony Stott
2012 Tandem Island "SIC EM" with Hobie spinnaker

Thanks for the reply. During the discussion with the RMS officer, he said "oh that's a new type of vessel that I'm not familiar with" (I thought I'm pretty sure they've been around 8-10 years? but wasn't about to ruffle feathers) and he was acting very professionally.

The CE sticker on mine says 2 people or 285kg and that only applies to the centre kayak without amas I thought. I've rustled around the RMS website looking for specific. The Marine Act 1998 doesn't appear to specify any relevant. But I don't want some Police or RMS person taking a look seeing the sticker and giving me a hard time, I accept your point that if you're sensible they'll be ok, but I just don't feel that comfortable if I come across an officer who had an argument with his wife the night before.

I should add I did tell the RMS officer about the 120kg bouyancy of each ama, he didn't seem interested.

I cannot imagine living in a place where someone can tell me how many people I can put on my boat...

Tom, we'll keep our boat loading rules as long as you keep Donald Trump!
PS. All commercial vehicles here (buses, ferries, airplanes taxis etc) have "Licensed to carry X passengers".

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Tony Stott
2012 Tandem Island "SIC EM" with Hobie spinnaker

Trump would never try to tell me how many people I can put on my TI, so I'll keep him.

I suppose it is the mistake that many of us here in America make in assuming that people in other lands have the same freedoms we do, although we are certainly headed in your direction if something doesn't change.

I don't think personal freedoms are an issue with kayaking/canoeing in Australia.

Unlike your beautiful state of North Carolina, kayaks don't have to be registered in the states where I boat (Australian Capital Territory, New South Wales and Victoria) and I suspect that this is also the case with the rest of Australia. Edit: NC requires sailing boats longer than 14' to be registered.

As far as I can tell, the only mandated safety requirements for a kayak are that I must wear an approved PFD if I am more than 200 metres from shore and display rudimentary lighting if I am boating at night. (Useful to me to be corrected if I am wrong). Of course, a whole lot of other sensible safety requirements come into play if I am intrepid/silly enough to take my kayak more than 2 nautical miles offshore. Like Tony Stott, I voluntarily carry a range of safety devices.

The TI blurs the boundary between kayaks and sailing boats. It can obviously comfortably carry more than 2 people, especially with hakas (?) fitted, provided the overall weight limit isn't exceeded. TIs are relatively new and maybe regulations are going to take a while to catch up. In the meantime, keenbean was not stopped from sailing responsibly with four passengers so you could say we did pass some sort of test of personal freedoms.

Its looking like registration is on the cards here in Western Australia too..

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Cuda Kev Frampton

2015 Hobie Adventure Island in Golden Papaya "Sail-Fish"

We here in CA, USA would be proud if you'd keep Trump over in NC.
With a little luck we will secede from the nation, and take our damn liberal 7th largest world economy with us (or I'll be begging you Australians for a home)

Always wondered this but would it be beneficial, or even possible, to remove that sticker which says max 2 people and the weight limit? I can see this being a problem somewhere like Syd Harbour on NYE or another busy day when the Roads & Martime or water police are out in action...

I had an issue with this on a local lake last summer. The rangers stopped us on the water and told us that based on the sticker that we were overloaded. It was my wife and I with 3 kids. We were probably pushing the weight limit, but not exceeding it and everyone had PFDs. They didn't believe us that the sticker was only rating the center hull and didn't include the amas and trampolines. Here is the link to the thread that I started about it last summer: viewtopic.php?f=71&t=55453

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2015 Hobie Tandem Island Hibiscus
"Third Normal Form"

• Trampolines
• Hobie cover
• Davis Spar Fly
• Kayakbob's Sprayskirts
• Spine Board Hakas

Reminds me of a weight related story...

In 1976, Irishman Harold Cudmore put his Ron Holland designed 30 foot offshore racing yacht on a trailer, and towed it from UK to Trieste in Italy, behind an elderly Mk9 Jaguar. He was going to compete in the World Half Ton level rating series

When he got pulled over by the Italian police, he successfully avoided a fine by showing them the rating certificate, and convinced them that his load was "half ton" , so they let him continue towing his 7,000 pound yacht!

Harold won, and being a rather flamboyant character, to celebrate his victory, he sailed his yacht, under full spinnaker, down the Grand Canal in Venice! True stories!

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Tony Stott
2012 Tandem Island "SIC EM" with Hobie spinnaker

Oddly, I have only the CE sticker that shows person + person + gear = 600 lbs/272 kg. I read that to mean that my max load for people and gear is 600 lbs/272 kg. The confusing sticker is missing...

Bob, the confusion exists because the very same sticker is on the Adventure kayak. While I can understand that Hobie cannot add a different sticker for Adventure Islands, as they cannot control which components of the Island are in place (one ama, to amas, no amas), they really have no choice to stay with the CE sticker for minimal configuration.

My own tests show that the amas on an AI2 support 100kgs each, while those on a TI support 150kgs each (AI2s will be somewhere between). None of this extra buoyancy is included in the CE sticker, but in practice, makes them capable of carrying more weight.

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Tony Stott
2012 Tandem Island "SIC EM" with Hobie spinnaker

We should of had a Trump years ago, you can't do a thing here without it being regulated in someway.

Europe's exactly the same

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Every day is an Adventure Island day