Safety Release For Mainsheet ?

OK... not a very descriptive subject line....

But I had one of those "interesting" experiences on Thursday:

• Cross-onshore winds gusting regularly to 25 and occasionally to 30 and a little voice started whispering in my ear "Time to go in or yer gonna get huuurrrrrrt."
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• Sailed almost to the beach, furled the main in waist-deep water, turned the boat around to face the wind and was walking it diagonally towards shore stern-first.
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• Stumbled, fell in the water.
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• At that moment, the furling line managed to come un-cleated and I wound up with full sail sheeted in hard enough to catch beau coups air - probably about the same situation as if I had fallen overboard just while sailing normally.
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• Grabbed an ama, but could not hold on for the full ride and, in retrospect, may have been better off not holding on.... -)
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• Boat blew about a tenth of a mile down the beach and finally came to rest in some heavy dune grass where I retrieved it.

The thought of a tether (a-la Weta) now crosses my mind against this happening in similarly heavy air - but further from shore.

Not every day.... just on those "Special" days.... -)

But I am not sure I want to be teathered to that thing unless there's some safety factor sheet-wise.

OK, the no-brainer is a quick-release shackle on the helmsman's end of the tether - just like Weta recommends to keep a turtle-ing Weta from drowning you or a raging AI from dragging you senseless...

But you pull that quick release and now the boat is gone... what surf ski paddlers call a "Blow-Away".... and there you are in the middle of the bay looking and feeling foolish...

So we need something to tame that boat when we fall overboard in heavy air.


What I am thinking:

• Replace the main sheet block's hook attachment to the sail with a quick-release snap shackle like this http://denverrope.com/images3/trigger_shackle.jpg
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• When conditions seem to call for a tether, connect the tether to the shackle two ways: first the main tether line connected to the same place that the mainsheet is connected..... second, leaving 6" or so of loop in the main line, another length of line to the shackle release lanyard.
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• Helmsman falls overboard, tether first pulls the shackle release lanyard, then transfers the load to the mainsheet.
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• Mainsheet is then detached from the sail, boat weathervanes stern-to-wind, sail flogs, and the helmsman is back in charge - albeit neck-deep in the water....

Thoughts from The Engineering Minds ?

_________________
2015 AI in "Dune" - "The Grey Pig"
2017 Trailex 450 Trailer
Pre-September 2015 cradles
(anybody want to buy a slightly-used AI SpinKit?)
eMail: [email protected]

That is quite an experience, Pete. I'm in favor of tethers, but I sheepishly admit I have not used one yet. Don't know where to attach it to my self. I've thought about it at various times and getting close to a decision. An ankle attachment is out--don't like the idea of getting towed behind an AI 2 by my foot.

Keith

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2015 AI 2, 2014 Tandem

"Any intelligent fool can make things bigger and more complex ... It takes a touch of genius and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction." A. Einstein

"Less is more" Anon

Your predicament was the result of your not cleating the furling line properly. Everything which followed was a direct result of this initial error. Ergo.. make sure the lines get cleated securely.

I can't see why you should overcomplicate things by adding an extra "panic" line up to the mainsheet clew. I could think of any number of other scenarios where such a line could cause tangles and defeat the benefits.

As for a tether, I picked up handy advice right here, to tie the ends of both mainsheet and furling lines together, with the added corollary of passing this loop through a large carabiner attached to my wader belt. This is a win-win-win-win, as:-
* The ends of the lines are always at hand for sail trimmimng.
* I am now tethered to the vessel
* Being attached by the waist, I should be able to move freely at the end of the tether
* I have the means of furling the sail right there even if I am in the water

_________________
Tony Stott
2012 Tandem Island "SIC EM" with Hobie spinnaker

Buncha years ago - paddling my surfski off of Brigantine Inlet (NJ) - I went over the falls on a wave that was about 6'....

At the time I was using a tether attached just below the knee.

Until the whitewater ran it's course, I felt like one of these spinning bass lures.

I came out of it with no injury, but Those Who Know in the surfski fora say that tethering to a leg is courting injury.

At least with surf, the whitewater runs it's course and all is over within a fairly short time - maybe short enough to hold one's breath.

But getting dragged by a powered up sailboat is another thing all together and I think the chances of reaching down to un-attach a leg leash against the current of being dragged are between zero and nil.

Weta recommends a chest-attached tether/harness kind of like this: http://www.westmarine.com/buy/west-mari ... P010997500 and I can see that as being releasable while being dragged.

_________________
2015 AI in "Dune" - "The Grey Pig"
2017 Trailex 450 Trailer
Pre-September 2015 cradles
(anybody want to buy a slightly-used AI SpinKit?)
eMail: [email protected]

True, dat... for the immediate situation....... But I was thinking more in terms of sailing along with the main cleated and having the boat pitch-pole or flip - dumping me into the water.


I cannot argue with that - and that's why I threw the idea out there for comment..... Right off the bat, I can see the tether attached to the clew flopping around on tacks and gybes and undesireably loose in any case.
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I think I am going to try starting a thread in WoodenBoat to see what the "Real" sailors do.... with the caution that the AI is something of a different animal than the average day-sailor or cruiser.


I always do that.... but the idea of attaching the tether to the main sheet has my interest.... Maybe I have to try that out when the weather/water is warmer.... The key question being what happens to the sheet and/or furling line tension when I go overboard in various scenarios: does the sheet get pulled in? Or does the furling line furl ? or does the line tend to jamb or hang up in the cleat when pulled from a non-standard direction....... seems like a complicated set of possibilities/scenarios.

_________________
2015 AI in "Dune" - "The Grey Pig"
2017 Trailex 450 Trailer
Pre-September 2015 cradles
(anybody want to buy a slightly-used AI SpinKit?)
eMail: [email protected]

It is nevertheless a good topic for discussion.. better to think through various scenarios while in front of a keyboard rather than out on the water.

I also think that the perils of being dragged along by a tether attached to an Island as it sails away have been pretty well debunked by experiments carried out by others here. The reality is that the drag of a person in the water more or less overcomes the power generated by the empty Island's sail.

A full-on safety harness like shown in your link is what is needed if you fall overboard from a yacht, but will certainly also do the job on an Island.

_________________
Tony Stott
2012 Tandem Island "SIC EM" with Hobie spinnaker

Maybe in light-to-moderate air, but that was not my experience on Thursday.

I got dragged quite hard while I was able to hang on.... problem was that I did not have the strength/endurance to keep hanging on....... But it was pretty intense while it lasted.

I think the differences were:

• Heavy Air: 25-30 is a whole different ballgame.
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• Rudder and daggerboard both up: i.e. no lateral resistance - so the thing was not actually "Sailing"... but being blown sideways by the barn-door effect of wind on sail and hull.

_________________
2015 AI in "Dune" - "The Grey Pig"
2017 Trailex 450 Trailer
Pre-September 2015 cradles
(anybody want to buy a slightly-used AI SpinKit?)
eMail: [email protected]

The operative word there is "Should"..... -)

And there's no doubt about it: you are tethered - for better or for worse....-)

If/when I do it, no matter what I have at the Hull/JackLine/Mainsheet end, I will have a quick release at my end.

Horse people and dog handlers seem to like the Panic Snaps like this: https://www.futurepets.com/cgi-bin/FULL ... E101620.... But there seems to be a dirth of them in stainless and/or labeled "Marine Use"... so I have to suspect there's some fatal flaw there....... And that's a shame because the release procedure looks like the most ergonomic/intuitive of them all: you grab the line that's dragging you (no problem finding that...), slide your hand down to the device, tighten up your grip, and just keep sliding..... basically one single fluid motion once you grab the line.

OTOH, maybe it's too easy - i.e. you are probably grabbing that line in a drag situation no matter what and then there would be the possibility of accidentally releasing it.

OTOOH, the Weta makers recommend what I think of as a conventional quick-release snap shackle and regular practice releasing it. (http://www.westmarine.com/buy/ronstan-- ... 60_001_002)..... The obvious requirement being that the user has to locate and grab the release lanyard before pulling it. The direction of the release pin pull being more-or-less at a right angle to the load - which one would hope works for that situation and not be as subject to accidental release......

But the Weta situation is avoidance of being drowned by a boat going turtle.... i.e. the pull is relatively mild..... whereas the AI situation has the shackle loaded up much more and that would increase the amount of effort required to pull the release pin.

Kite Surf suppliers offer a number of different options but after reading up on a few I am suspicious of their expertise in the matter - seems like at least some are just winging it and offering up implementations that look reasonable to buyers but which have little or no proven experience behind them..... Some... not all... but I'm too clueless to distinguish between the two categories.

_________________
2015 AI in "Dune" - "The Grey Pig"
2017 Trailex 450 Trailer
Pre-September 2015 cradles
(anybody want to buy a slightly-used AI SpinKit?)
eMail: [email protected]

I enjoyed your story.. must have been wild!!

The one thing I thought of when reading that is that the whole string of incidents was caused by the sail becoming unfurled turning on a huge amount of power in those conditions. What about just an additional "T" cleat added somewhere close to the furler cam cleat? You would only use this additional cleat when you for sure did not want the sail deployed. I have something like this extra "safety cleat" on my dingy for the jib furler - had the same thing happen on this boat where a jam/cam cleat somehow released and the jib unfurled at about the worst possible time.

Ill add one thing also. Before we went to the San Juan Islands (cold big water), I had jumped off my TI from the rear seat while my wife was steering in controlled conditions (about 90 F water) just to see what problems I might have to solve if this situation ever happened. What I found is that if you cant steer the boat while being dragged.. you may not be doing much else than being dragged. You need to somehow be able to steer the boat to get things under control. You can either do this with the steering mechanism or I have heard.. that you can also grab the rudder and steer.. (but it has to be down to do this, you had already put your up..)

Somebody made the same observation earlier in the thread...... Mea Culpa.... but stuff does happen... human error and all that...... And, being one of those people capable of more human error than most, I try to avoid things where human error is fatal.... I quit flying airplanes once I realized that failing to open a fuel petcock before takeoff could cost me my life....


My approach is to have tension on the tether disconnect the mainsheet from the clew of the sail - leaving the sail flogging - my theory being that, with no sail, the boat will become manageable by somebody in the water and tethered to it.

But that's still just a theory pending warmer weather and 25-30 mph winds to test it.

_________________
2015 AI in "Dune" - "The Grey Pig"
2017 Trailex 450 Trailer
Pre-September 2015 cradles
(anybody want to buy a slightly-used AI SpinKit?)
eMail: [email protected]

Funny.. I just went through the thread looking for the poster named "Mea Culpa". Maybe I shouldn't admit that LOL..

I shouldn't have capitalized both words - and maybe should have put the phrase in italics.

Mea culpa.... -)

_________________
2015 AI in "Dune" - "The Grey Pig"
2017 Trailex 450 Trailer
Pre-September 2015 cradles
(anybody want to buy a slightly-used AI SpinKit?)
eMail: [email protected]

I admit I am dumb but i didnt understand excatly how you manage the "joining the mailsheet and the furling line". how? any picture or design?

Weta no longer includes a tether with their boats. The tug of war between keeping yourself attached to the boat and not becoming entangled/dragged seems to have been won by the latter.

Upwind, most boats will simply round up and go into irons so this isn't as much of an issue. But downwind can be another matter for a boat such as the TI. I see no easy answer that will suit everyone, but again believe this is just one more reason not to cleat the mainsheet while sailing the boat.

Pete:
Or you can just bypass Hobies harkin cleat alltogether, and just mount a standard docking cleat to your gunwale. Like Tom suggested. If you let go of the line wrapped around the docking cleat, your mainsail just passes thru and releases the tension on the main. If you tie your tether to the end of your furling line (not the mainsheet line), if you fall overboard, your tether automatically furls your mainsail.
Just don't do a figure 8 loop on that deck cleat (that locks it so it won't release if you let the line go (aka, you just fell off the boat and your no longer hanging onto that mainsheet line, it needs to slide thru the deck cleat).
Tom mentioned all that, but I don't think it sunk in with any of us just how simple and foolproof it is.
FE