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 Post subject: Rudder control
PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2016 12:21 pm 
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Site Rank - Deck Hand

Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2016 11:53 am
Posts: 2
Hi. I am new in this forum and sorry for my english.
I am an happy owner of TI since last summer. I'm italian and in my country it's not easy to find another one.
My problem and my doubts are for the control of the rudder. When I sail the control of the rudder is very difficult...it is very hard to turn...and when I say hard it means that sometimes I can't maintain the direction of the TI especially when I sail little faster.
I would like to know if this is normal or could be some problem or wrong settings in the rudder control?
Thanks
Tugiu


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 Post subject: Re: Rudder control
PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2016 4:34 pm 
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Joined: Sun Feb 22, 2015 9:58 pm
Posts: 218
Location: SF Bay
Please provide more details about the conditions that are associated with the problem. You say that "sometimes" you can't maintain direction especially at faster speeds. Does that mean the steering is fine at low speeds? Does the rudder move freely and fully when not under way? You may be experiencing weather helm which is an ongoing forum discussion.


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 Post subject: Re: Rudder control
PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2016 1:35 pm 
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Joined: Tue May 27, 2003 12:44 pm
Posts: 12649
Location: Oceanside, California
Lots of discussion here about rudders.

Do you have the current rudder? Flips straight up in the air when raised... does not "twist and stow" flat onto the deck.

Keeping the rudder down. Are you pulling the down line and cleating it there?

Are you sitting in the front seat when sailing solo in higher winds? Sit in the aft seat for best control.

Are you roller furling the main a bit when you get too much power? Reduce sail area.

You can try raising the dagger board partially when sailing in higher winds.

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 Post subject: Re: Rudder control
PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2016 6:35 pm 
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Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2016 11:53 am
Posts: 2
Thanks for the answers.
I have the current rudder.
At low speed there is no problem...even if I sit in back or front seat, solo or with someone.
Maybe what I wrote is only a mine impression and this is normal at high speed but to maintain the direction I need to force on the stearing


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 Post subject: Re: Rudder control
PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2016 6:51 pm 
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Site Rank - Admiral

Joined: Wed Sep 30, 2009 12:25 pm
Posts: 175
Location: Georgia
The first few times I sailed my TI and experienced similar conditions .............. I discovered my rudder pin had sheared, but remained in place. And, the port bungee line for the rudder control had slipped and I had to "re-string" the port rudder line and bungee.

Hope this helps.
bill


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 Post subject: Re: Rudder control
PostPosted: Sat Aug 13, 2016 5:30 am 
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Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Sun Apr 20, 2008 6:18 am
Posts: 2995
Location: Sarasota,Key West FL
I think if you have the newer up/down rudder vs the old twist and stow rudder that was replaced in 2011. Then there are three things to watch out for.
#1 the boat grows and shrinks quite a bit depending on outside temp, if the rudder control lines were adjusted it cold weather, they become too tight in warm weather and can make steering difficult. This tight steering would be all the time, even sitting on shore and with the rudder up, doesn't sound like the problem you are describing, the remedy is to adjust the rudder strings.

#2 the rudder sheer pin is very easy to break if you bump the sea floor during launch and landing (in my case 90% of my rudder pin breakages are self imposed, (I bump the ground accidentally). I always walk to the back of the boat and wiggle the rudder before going out, to make sure the rudder pin is not partially broken. One indicator of a partially broken rudder pin is tight steering while underway ,(basically check that rudder pin often and replace if needed, by your description this is also not likely the issue.

#3. If the rudder down line is not pulled down tight and cleated, the water rushing past the rudder can make it tilt back and make steering very difficult. Make sure the rudder down line is pulled tight and cleated, walk to the back of the boat to double check it, when pushing it back by hand it shouldn't move much. This is most likely your problem based on you description. Remedy, make sure rudder is cleated down.

As already described over sheeting the sail (too much sail for the conditions) can also make steering more difficult, remedy, furl the sail in a few turns, or don't pull it in so tight.
There are several other thing that can cause the problem, but the above 3 things are the most common.
Hope this helps
FE


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 Post subject: Re: Rudder control
PostPosted: Sat Aug 13, 2016 7:07 am 
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Joined: Sat Nov 05, 2011 1:58 am
Posts: 2828
Location: Forster, NSW, Australia
Just to emphasise the benefits of a tight rudder down line. Have a good look at the rudder, and you will see that the bottom half has an extra bit at the front. This bit is actually infront of the rudder hinge line, so when the rudder is turned, water hits this first, and applies quite a strong force which opposes that felt bty the rear of the rudder. These two conflicting forces actually REDUCE the force you need to apply to the tiller.

Now imagine your rudder down line is loose. Now the water-flow tilts the rudder back, and the forces on the front of the rudder are ADDED to the force on the rear, making a dramatic change to the forces your hand need to apply to operate the rudder.

That blade should not be allowed to swing back, unless you are lifting it out of the water at the beach etc.

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2012 Tandem Island "SIC EM" with Hobie spinnaker and Hangkai outboard
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 Post subject: Re: Rudder control
PostPosted: Sun Dec 25, 2016 3:45 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jul 28, 2012 4:21 am
Posts: 100
Location: Victor Harbor, South Australia
[quotThat blade should not be allowed to swing back, unless you are lifting it out of the water at the beach etc.e][/quote]


Thanks for that info Tony...shame on me, I should have used my knowledge of aerodynamics to remind me what the leading edge part (horn) of the rudder blade forward of the rudder pin is for!
I was raising the rudder into the "trail" position when coming into the beach, but the pressure on the tiller is excessive. I now come in (usually at a good fast pace holding the down line tight but in the unlocked position. As soon as I hit the beach, drop the down rudder toggle and raise AND LOCK the rudder in the up position.

AND tight steering lines are essential...especially if you go 'surfing' in 2 metre+ swells with blokes using the likes of a Hobie Wave... a loose rudder line will have you fighting the tiller to avoid a broach.
Cheers, Vintagereplica...If it works ok, Modify it anyway!

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