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 Post subject: Spinnaker on a TI
PostPosted: Thu Sep 08, 2016 11:07 am 
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Site Rank - Deck Hand

Joined: Tue May 31, 2016 9:45 am
Posts: 3
I am interested on getting the Spinnaker addition on my 2011 TI, but I'm a little concerned about mast strength. I ask this because I already broke two masts, one from a mast mount weldment breaking and the other I'm still am not sure why. I was in 15 to 20MPH winds with gusts and it snapped at the base. I have been in a lot worse conditions with no issues. To Hobies credit they replaced both of them free of charge even though they were not under warrenty. Now when I'm in heavier winds I'm excited and a little apprehensive at the same time.

Question: Will my mast hold up to the added stress of an additional sail. Both times it broke I was on a down wind reach and that's what this sails primary use is. Also can the spinnaker be pulled tight to help in close hall reaches like a jib or is it strictly a spinnaker.


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 Post subject: Re: Spinnaker on a TI
PostPosted: Sat Sep 10, 2016 12:42 pm 
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Joined: Wed Dec 02, 2015 8:09 am
Posts: 66
Patrick Derpinghaus wrote:
I am interested on getting the Spinnaker addition on my 2011 TI, but I'm a little concerned about mast strength. I ask this because I already broke two masts, one from a mast mount weldment breaking and the other I'm still am not sure why. I was in 15 to 20MPH winds with gusts and it snapped at the base. I have been in a lot worse conditions with no issues. To Hobies credit they replaced both of them free of charge even though they were not under warrenty. Now when I'm in heavier winds I'm excited and a little apprehensive at the same time.

Question: Will my mast hold up to the added stress of an additional sail. Both times it broke I was on a down wind reach and that's what this sails primary use is. Also can the spinnaker be pulled tight to help in close hall reaches like a jib or is it strictly a spinnaker.


I was one of the first ones to get the Spinnaker and I installed it on a 2015 TI. When going downwind with the Spinnaker, it looks like the rear halyard line evens out the stress on the mast from the Spinnaker pulling it forward. The spinnaker also works on close hall reaches somewhat, but, that Is when I get concerned about the mast, because there is a lot more side stress.... Usually, I do not use the Spinnaker much on a close hall unless the wind is very mild..


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 Post subject: Re: Spinnaker on a TI
PostPosted: Sun Sep 11, 2016 5:13 am 
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Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Sun Apr 20, 2008 6:18 am
Posts: 3062
Location: Sarasota,Key West FL
I've been running pretty big sail sets on my TI's since 2010, quite a few different variations with sometimes as much as 260sq ft of sail up (90 sq ft main, 30 sq ft jib, and 130 sq ft spinnaker). You really only need the extra sail area in very light winds, as soon as the winds get above around 12mph just the main alone provides more than enough power, actually with my boat at 12 mph winds I usually furl my main in at least 1 turn or else it over powers the boat. And I keep the spin and jib furled. Yea you can put the jib out on a reach but generally a standard 30sq ft jib creates too much heeling moment (the side force trying to tip you over), and doesn't buy you more than 1 mph additional speed. Plus on a reach with the jib out, you have to begin furling the main in earlier.
On a standard Island with just the single sail the best point of sail is a 90 degree reach (like most boats). However the boats upwind ability (like most multi hulls) is not so fantastic, typical for me with just the main alone is around 45 degrees off the wind upwind. Of course the Islands are unique because if your willing to pedal (most aren't) then you can pinch closer to the wind. Adding a jib really only helps improve the upwind capability of the boat (you can pinch a little higher). The jib also helps a little on downwind if you put the jib to one side and the main to the other (what I call batwing).
On the TI with a single main, the worst point of sail is downwind because the main turns into a taco shell, adding a barbor hauler helps a little. Adding a proper spinnaker give the boat great downwind performance. Especially in light air, you can easily achieve 1=1 downwind performance with a good spinnaker. Hobies spinnaker is a really good design. Because it's a code zero cut, you can use it downwind, and also on a broad reach in light air (and maybe even 60-70 deg off the wind upwind), which is not too shabby. Obviously the boat was designed for only the main, (ie...Ama flotation, and mast strength) so your not likely to have that spin out on a reach in winds over around 10 mph or the boat just tips over.
The rear stay is pretty important because it takes up most of the forward stress on the mast (caused by the spin). Yea you can add side stays but you need to be careful with them because the mast and main are pretty much designed to be bendy and you lose mainsail performance with side stays on. One good comprimise on the side stays is if you put them on bungys so the top of the mast can still bend a couple feet. I saw somebody had that and thought, "heck why didn't I think of that one years ago (lol, dah).
For a while I had a trapese line hooked to the mast topper where if I hiked way out and lean back using my weight to keep the mast from breaking, I could get pretty good speeds from 120 deg off the wind to 250 deg, but it took both my wife and I hiked out on our tippy toes as far out as we could get to keep the boat from capsizing, (plus the Trap). Sure the boat was flying, but it became obvious that the boat itself was just not designed for those kind of speeds. First off in 20-25 mph winds the seas are very choppy (3-4ft chop), and the entire boat flexe's and twists like a gummy bear, at least a foot in all directions ( tremendous risk of folding the hull at the main hatch with no hull re-enforcement, (mine is heavily re-enforced)). At those speeds any wave hitting the AMA's just snaps the nylon sheer pins as if they weren't there at all, sure you can replace the pins with stainless bolts, but then you just fold the aka bars instead) And the final deal killer for the boat is the rudder, if your barreling aling at 20 plus mph and you have to crank the rudder hard to avoid a marker bouy, forget about it, the rudder just snaps off and flies up in the air.
The last one that that comes up is the risk of pitchpoleing the boat at speed (I have pitch poled around 6 times now). The problem is the boat is so low in the water when you hit a big boat wake or surf, the really short boat gets over the first one just fine, usually lands on the second, but then dives under the third. Basically the bow dives about 4 ft under, the stren comes up in the air and the boat goes from 20 to zero in one second flat. To make it even more humiliating When that happens is typically my rear stay line snaps (from the spinnaker load) then the spin lays down in the water in front of me and I run right over it (kind of a big no no in sailing I hear ( lol)).
I recommend getting the Hobie spinnaker, it really help to round out the overall performance of a TI, but there are limitations. Just because you can put it up, doesn't mean the rest of the boat can withstand the added strain.
If you want a go fast boat get an H16 cat. If you want an all around boat that can handle pretty much any conditions get a TI, but keep that spin put away in strong conditions, it's your fingers on those control lines, use them wisely.
I no longer push my boat too hard, it's just not worth the risk, (well maybe once in a great while I get a bug to go out and hot dog offshore with my hydrofoils, can't help myself, but doing so is extreme high risk)
Hope this helps
FE


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 Post subject: Re: Spinnaker on a TI
PostPosted: Mon Sep 12, 2016 5:27 am 
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Joined: Tue May 31, 2016 9:45 am
Posts: 3
Thank you for your detailed posts. This helped in my decision making. Spinnaker it is.


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