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PostPosted: Tue Jul 25, 2017 4:43 pm 
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Check this out: https://photos.google.com/share/AF1QipP ... JaRW5TYzBR

It is a post-mortem photo of the pedal spindle from my second broken crank arm. ... First one looked the same.

Note the (sheared off ??) nubbin that used to be press-fitted into the non-pedal side of the crank arm.

Once that thing shears off it seems intuitive to me that the twisting force exerted by the pedal would cause the crank arms to fail like this: https://photos.google.com/share/AF1QipP ... JaRW5TYzBR

Only thing I cannot account for is how/why the other end on the first arm also failed: https://photos.google.com/share/AF1QipP ... JaRW5TYzBR

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 26, 2017 6:36 am 
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I'm unable to pull up your pics, but I have some general comments on the pedal cranks.
Aluminum in general is not very good against force, when force is applied it tends to deform, once deformed or stressed past the yield limit, (deformation), the yield max tends to go down quickly. For example if you take a 1/8x1" piece of aluminum and bend it (past the yield max), the next time it takes less force to bend, finally after repeated bends it breaks and fails, that's just basic metallurgy. Of course better grades of aluminum like aircraft aluminum have much higher yield resistance. As a designer I always try to over design aluminum stuff stuff so the high stress areas are over designed to distribute and equalize the forces away from high stress points. One such high stress point on my pedals is where the 1/4" dia pin goes thru the shaft midway up the shaft. There are a couple ways to strengthen that area, the easiest is make up a square plug about 2" long with a 1/4" hole in the center. I think 1/2"square aluminum will work, however steel is way better.
After making the pin stuff a paper towel into the shaft ahead of the plug, (this is to stop the epoxy from dropping past the plug later).
Now drop the plug into the shaft and align a 1/4"pin thru the hole,(you may want to grease up the pin). Once in place just pour some epoxy into the hole to fill the area around the plug with epoxy to fill up the space around the plug. This should strengthen that high stress area enough to prevent it from ever breaking.

I'm not sure about the design at the very top where the pedal sticks out. You might be able to remove the crank arm, stuff a paper towel into the square opening, then drop in a couple tiny drill bits into the corner,( or anywhere you can fit them), then fill that whole area around the end of the crank with epoxy. The last one is just an idea I thought about based on the design of my older 2012 crank arms. I have no idea what the newer crank arms look like.
I have literally thousands of peddling miles on my 2012 mirage drives with no issues with the pedal/crank arms breaking, In addition I have the flow 90 (eclipse) flippers mounted on my boat and only just use them anymore (I got accustomed to the much higher peddling force, however the benefit is I can peddle at a much slower pace and maintain the same steady speeds as before. On thing about the TI that I really like is the boat glides really well. With just me peddling on nice calm flat water in very light wind I can pedal for hours on end at a walking pace speed (I'm guessin around 30 cps leisure pace), and still get where we want to go without exhaustion and leg cramps. Where to maintain that same speed with the turbo fins required a more exhausing higher cps (40-45), and I would need to take more breaks to prevent leg cramps.
I feel the whole key to these boats is to peddle at your own pace, (steady and light), probably at a slightly slower pace than a good sea kayak can go (yes sea kayaks, and surfski's in the right hands are probably faster). As long as your not trying to race anyone I feel our boats expend the least amount of maintainable energy.
We are no athletes by any stretch of the imagination, and the area we live in typically requires to traverse great distances (just sayin the keys are huge, with just bare sand and shallow water near any body of land, nothing to look at and explore), especially as divers and snorklers, (what we like to do).
Basically we use our boat to get us where we want to be, then get the heck out of the boat as soon as possible, (it's really hot here btw, and you almost have to be in the water). Which I think is the opposite of everyone else.
Hope this helps
FE

Edit: obviously if you over power the eclipse fins you will snap the pedal arms and snap the cables, so I wouldn't try any racin with them. I keep a set of turbo fins as spares in my repair kit, just in case I need to switch them out.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 04, 2017 4:25 pm 
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fusioneng wrote:
I'm unable to pull up your pics...

Do you recall what indication(s) you got when trying to pull them up?

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2017 Trailex 450 Trailer
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 04, 2017 7:13 pm 
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On my iphone it just comes up as a blank screen no photos.
I suspect because I also have a google photos account my phone automatically logs onto my own account without my intervention, I have no clue how to fix.
FE


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 04, 2017 9:35 pm 
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Your pics of both the crank arm base and pedal shaft indicate a high degree of torque applied from the outboard side of the pedals. I wonder if you also wear out the outside edges of your shoes? This indicates a foot condition called supination and would be consistent with your pedal problems. You indicated this is your second similar parts failure, minimizing the chance of defective parts. I think some pedal orthotics will take care of the problem! 8)

PS. An alternate solution would be to order some old bullet proof billet crank arms if Hobie still has them (PN81105001 (R) and 81100001 (L)) and use bicycle screw-in pedals of your choice.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 05, 2017 5:58 am 
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I finally got your pics up.
Yes this is classic metal fatigue, probably caused by applying too much force to the pedals. Some of the fixes I described above can help strngthen existing pedals. I suspect some of the real hardcore racer guys (and gals), take it on themselves to make up stronger pedal arms, think about it, the part itself is extremely simple 3/4" square stock with a few holes machined in, you can likely take them to a local machine shop and have stronger pedals made from either a better grade of alum (360 T6 or any of the stronger aircraft grades), or stainless. Either solid or tubing (I would go solid).
This is not a common problem, and most who have broken several pedal arms, and are known to really push their drives do something themselves to strengthen the drives for extra heavy duty use, not really Hobies problem.
I for example somehow took a liking to the flow 90 (eclipse) fins and have those installed on my mirage drive, knowing full well that if I over power the pedals on my old 2012 mirage drives (that have been upgraded to glide tech), the pedals will eventually give out. It doesn't end with the pedal cranks, as soon as you strengthen the pedal cranks, the next thing in line to go is the drive cables. Yes you can make stronger cables, but then the problem moves on down to the sprockets, and the fin shafts. And of course all the bearings and shafts need to be replaced more often.
I suspect the real hard core guys replace a lot of those components often, (salt water intrusion into the cables shortens their lifespan quite a bit, if you can keep salt water from entering the cables they will last a little longer, when I put new cable in I typically soak each end with clear coat before installing, then I put a coating of grease on each cable end to prevent water intrusion into the cable, that I re-apply often. Yes I have to replace my cables every year or so, ( what I call consumable items, along with the fins).

One thing I do that I think helps is when I'm really pushing my drives hard (probably too hard), I point my toes inward so the force is against the upright shaft itself, this lessens the twisting force on the top of the pedal.
I know for a fact especially with my flow 90 fins, if I push too hard or my feet are too far out on the pedals, they will just snap, so I conciously know not to do that because I know it will end my day and cost me a lot of money to repair, (all the mirage parts are very expensive).
Running mirage drives is every much training your leg muscles and reaction time as anything else. For example I hit the bottom with my mirage fins all the time, yet have never ruined a fin or shaft, because my muscles are trained to stop and reverse rather than just trying to peddle on thru (100% damage every time and gets really costly to me). Actually that's always the first thing I go over with anyone new to mirage drives, before we ever leave shore.
I have certain relatives from up north (not mentioning any names (lol)), that have wrecked my mirage drives, because they ignored my instructions, ( it's not their stuff, so they can care less), that's likely why you see very few places renting out mirage kayaks I suspect.
This reminds me of the patient who goes to the doc and says when I do this it hurts, the doctors answer is always 'don't do that then'.
In my case I have had many mirage kayaks over the last ten yrs or so and have peddled many thousands of miles, this was my main exercise program for a long time and I peddled an average 10-15 miles weekly all year round (lol because I can do that in swfl and the keys). I learned the hard way, (financially) if you push the drives too hard, or you don't take care of the drives with regular maint, they will cost you a very big bag on money. I have never broken a pedal crank arm, if I ever do I will do the fixes described above on the next set, or make new pedals arms myself.
Just tryin to help here
FE


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 1:40 pm 
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Roadrunner wrote:
PS. An alternate solution would be to order some old bullet proof billet crank arms if Hobie still has them (PN81105001 (R) and 81100001 (L)) and use bicycle screw-in pedals of your choice.
If "Billet" means solid stock, I've sort of done that.

Fabricated my own: https://photos.google.com/share/AF1QipP ... JaRW5TYzBR using the leftovers from the two broken arms.

But it still begs the question of why that "Press Fit" nubbin sheared off: https://photos.google.com/share/AF1QipP ... JaRW5TYzBR

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2017 Trailex 450 Trailer
Pre-September 2015 cradles
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Last edited by PeteCress on Sat Aug 12, 2017 2:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 2:04 pm 
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fusioneng wrote:
I learned the hard way, (financially) if you push the drives too hard, or you don't take care of the drives with regular maint, they will cost you a very big bag on money. I have never broken a pedal crank arm, if I ever do I will do the fixes described above on the next set, or make new pedals arms myself.

I find it remarkable that a 76-year-old man who can barely walk can push these things to the breaking point.

That being said, this guy's approach has a certain appeal to me: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fSZbXEbvAF0

Not the spring fins, but the seemingly-more robust gear-driven approach.

OTOH, one has to wonder how the gears will deal with quartz sand..... -)

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2017 Trailex 450 Trailer
Pre-September 2015 cradles
(anybody want to buy a slightly-used AI SpinKit?)
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 2:29 pm 
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I'm sure Hobie will be going after these guys with a vengence. I'm not sure they will work well because the fins are not hydrofoils (not nearly as efficient). Also I'm a manufacturer, if I made and sold this unit it would cost a couple grand, those bevel gears are pricy, and stainless steel is not cheap, and flexes out pretty quickly and breaks, 500-1000 pedals the replace. Then theirs the tig welding, expensive and slow process, done by high paid people.
FE


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