Rudder Pin design

Broke my second rudder pin last week. It had been in about 3 months. This time I was able to replace it easily on the water and continue on my way.
Winds were about 8-10 knots with stronger gusts and I had just commenced a tack upwind when the pin snapped at the lower end causing the rudder housing to kick up. It stayed in place though, unlike the first break when the whole housing was trailing behind held only by the rudder lines.
I furled the sail, uncleated the down line, grabbed the spare pin and headed aft. Kneeling on the rear hatch I was able to release the housing by wiggling it. The broken pin came out easily and it was just a matter of lining up the holes on the housing and the hull and inserting the new pin.

My GPS plot shows just what a minor inconvenience it was!


I carry a 10mm stainless Dynabolt pin to use in an emergency if I can’t get the plastic pin in but I didn’t have to use it this time.
I was able to save the broken pin:

Just removed my rudder pin after six hours sailing, 3 of which were in strong wind, and 3 in less than 8 knots. I decided to remove it because I noticed it was very squeaky. Sadly I can see its deformed, and no use putting back, I will need to use a new one. Let me know if any one needs this sample. I have not received any reply regarding the last one I returned to Hobie USA.

Incidentally by just using a flat bladed screwdriver at the bottom between the "arrow heads", the pin can be driven up very easily, without adding any more damage to the pin. I noticed some folks obviously battled to remove theirs.

Regarding the strong comments by Pirate at the beginning of this thread, indicating and suggesting that Hobie had a design fault based on the diameters of the holes through which this pin passes, I very carefully inspected the brass bush and the two plastic holes. I used an 8 mm drill bit to compare the dimensions, and I can state categorically there is absolutely no difference between the brass bush and the plastic housing on my AI, and in my experience, the tolerance looks reasonable. I added a bit of teflon lubricant, and will see how the next 5 or six hours go. If Pirate has substantial differences, I recommend returning the AI to the dealer for his inspection. As things stand, my AI appears exactly as I would expect it to be, and still the distortion occurs in the pin, which will lead to early failure. So I am now confident its not due to variation in diameters of the three bushes.

Geoff.

Update:

Yes we received the broken pin sample. Thanks for that. The sample does seem soft and has a void.

The engineers have a number of sample-material pins in process. Since they had already been through this before and strengthened the pin to what they felt was safe... they are starting over with testing the max strength to failure of transoms and rudder housings. This will help to define the max strength of the pin once again.

This will take some time.

Note: Pin removal requires pinching the bottom (arrow) together to release.

_________________
Matt Miller
Former - Director of Parts and Accessory Sales
Warranty and Technical Support
Hobie Cat USA
(Retired 11/7/2022)

Thanks Matt.

Hi Geoff, Just back from Cruise Liner cruising so a bit late with this reply. I find it very interesting the difference in tolerances between boats. Mine is an 09 model and is definately as stated. I have since made my own adjustments and am happy with my set-up now. I am still waiting for Matt to advise on Hobie's progress to eliminate the problem of pins breaking whilst under normal working conditions as per his commitment here to do so...Pirate

Pirate... latest update was three posts up... February 26th.

_________________
Matt Miller
Former - Director of Parts and Accessory Sales
Warranty and Technical Support
Hobie Cat USA
(Retired 11/7/2022)

Oops...Sorry Matt. .. Great to read you have it in hand Pirate

I stopped by the local Hobie dealer today and picked up two spare rudder pins. I haven't needed one yet but I wanted to have them just in case. The dealer showed me where to stow one of them. There is a place just inside the "twist and stow" lid, right above the hinge where the spare pin clips in.

When I got home I opeaned the rear twist and stow cover to clip the pin in and found there was one already there. The spare pin came with the Kayak new. I didn't even know I had a spare. But now I have three and that should last me for several months. Now both twist and stow covers have a spare pin clipped in plus another in the seat pouch. I'm all set!

Ron

Ron I am hopeful that Hobie will find a solution to AI pins continuing to break whilst operating under normal operating conditions, so your spare pins will last you a lifetime....Pirate

had a pin blow out after only 2 hours from brand new today...must say i have lost a lot of confidence in the craft over a $7 part..previous pin lasted 4 hours...oh well AI's out of the water till i get more pins....

come on hobie fix this problem

mmmm....my point entirely, and so easy for Hobie to get their act together and fix for once and all.
Astro as you know I am very interested in this subject and would be grateful if you would carefully measure the diameter of your gudgeon holes as compared with the pin diameter you are supplied with and report on this thread. My theory as you probably already are aware is that the problem is not the pins themselves but the lack of engineering quality. I believe that some boats have poor quality control with oversized holes like in my own boat which allows the the rudder blades to vibrate through the water causing the bottom portion of the pin to fail. Some boats have pins that fail regularly, others don't seem to have the same problem. Pirate

7$...? You paid double. I paid $3.50 each for the two I just bought, got two for $7.00.

Ron

This is old news / issues still cropping up. Biggest issue seems to be imperfect molding. They vary. The engineers are working on this still. Seems that replacement pin orders are WAY down though, so perhaps we are through most of the worst of it already.

Pending:

Stronger pins
Reinforced rudder housing
Still need to verify the breaking strength of the transom itself.

_________________
Matt Miller
Former - Director of Parts and Accessory Sales
Warranty and Technical Support
Hobie Cat USA
(Retired 11/7/2022)

sorry pirate i have nothing here to accurately test the diameters, but there seems to be no movement in the rudder once a new pin is installed. i will try and get some measurements whilst i wait for more pins to arrive

mmiller: i am glad to see replacement pin orders are down, but this doesn't help me...i have gone through 5 pins in 3 months worth of sailing, so i am not here everytime a pins goes bust. this last pin that only lasted 2 hours didn't break but bent



the biggest issue i have with all this is:
no confidence to head offshore...i now stay with 1k of shore at all times...bit like swimming in the kiddies pool...no more trips to the islands
whilst i am now proficient in steering the ai without the rudder it is PITA and very slow.

i can also change pins whilst on the water by lying down and sliding out to the rudder, but can only be done in calmer conditions.

btw cable ties are not a suitable replacement used one yesterday and it lasted about 30 seconds

That pin looks soft to me.

_________________
Matt Miller
Former - Director of Parts and Accessory Sales
Warranty and Technical Support
Hobie Cat USA
(Retired 11/7/2022)