Ti aka disconnecting from crossmember - safety concern

Hi team , i have issue with the aka disconnecting from crossmember . My tandem island was bought from a sydney dealer in February 2015 . Used only 5 times or so ,I thought it was user error when first disconnected . I make sure each aka is firmly clicked in And 2 weeks ago I had the front and rear aka disconnect in the sydney harbour 5 knot winds pretty calm day but a bit of chop . Since this day I am not going to use this kayak as I consider it a major issue compromising my safety .... What would happen of sailing in
20+- knot winds in a bit of swell with aka disconnecting ? Not a pretty picture for sure .

This is a 2014 model brand new which cost me a fair bit of hard earned cash for a craft that is unusable . I am very tempted to take it to the accc to start the process of a full refund .

But I enjoyed the craft so much that I will take it to the dealer for a fix if not done to satisfactory level to be safe I'm afraid I have to let go of this awesome hobbie

Anyone has same issue ? I read hammer not long ago got his fixed ...

Has to be an issue with the locking function of course. Tolerance issue maybe.




Some users are strapping the akas to the crossbar for more offshore security. Maybe do that in addition to checking the aka lock function.

_________________
Matt Miller
Former - Director of Parts and Accessory Sales
Warranty and Technical Support
Hobie Cat USA
(Retired 11/7/2022)

First course of action is to take it to a dealer so they can check if you have something wrong with your Island. I have used my 2012 TI at least 150 times and never had any issues, so the design itself seems fine.

As Matt says though, a lot of us have added additional lines primarily to prevent sudden retraction of the ama in the event of the aka shear pin breaking, and these lines have a bonus capability of holding the akas into the crossbars.

But as I have mentioned above, if your Island is set up as designed, the locking mechanism should be dependable.

Can you replicate the problem on land? EG. Trying to pull the aka out of the crossbar....

Getting a refund would be a very last resort, and I would strongly recommend you hang in there, as it will be worth it! You will certainly never need to go to ACCC, as Hobie is just abouit unsurpassed for customer aftersales support, and your dealer will not let you down.

In the almost microscopic possibility that a dealer doesn't satisfy a customer, Steve Fields, CEO of Hobie Australasia is a member of this forum, and would personally intervene in that unlikely scenario. I don't know of any other company which makes as much effort to keep their customers happy.

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Tony Stott
2012 Tandem Island "SIC EM" with Hobie spinnaker

I had my rear aka disconnect a few times. After fixing and upgrading the original parts I also added leashes to the rear aka so it can't happen again. My front aka are "leashed" with my Sprayskirt. Here's a pic of my rear leashes:

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Hobie Island Sailing since 2006

Most likely you're looking at a smidgeon of clearance issue. Something is preventing the aka bars from inserting far enough for the locking mechanism to fully lock, or causing the pins not to fully extend through the center support bar openings.

Not to downplay your issue, but this should be a simple fix once you determine where the problem lies.

In an earlier thread on this same issue, I recall somebody mentioning that they had a cam screw extending far enough inside the aka support bar to interfere with the aka knuckle and keep it from fully inserting. Something to look at anyway.

I had the exact same problem 5 yrs ago when I got my first TI. At the time apparently had a tolerance issue with the latches. The AKA's would randomly come out and I actually had family member fall in the water (now I have a reputation with the family I can't live down). A couple months later I got all new clips in the mail and the problem went away. However I had already lost trust in the system especially when offshore (where we are most of the time). On the early models we also had a problem with the bungys that hold the AMA's on, and they would fall off ocasionally. I also had broken quite a few of the nylon sheer bolts that hold the AMA's out ( if the nylon bolt breaks you will likely capsize. What I did to fix all three problems was tie a rope around the front aka brace, then run the rope to a clip that clips to the stainless cleat in the center of the AMA (I understand that cleat has been removed on later models, you can just as easily clip to the strap handle on the AMA).
I've had the same rope and clips on the boat now for five years with no issues at all. I never remove the ropes from the boat, and just stuff them unto the mesh pockets for transport. It takes all of 30 seconds to clip them in place when lauching. You can also do like Tony and just use one rope connecting the 2 Ama's. Actually pretty much anything will work.
I'm out pretty much every weekend all year round, and absolutely refuse to go out offshore without those safety ropes in place.
Hope this helps
FE

Fusioneng, pictures please.

Keith

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2015 AI 2, 2014 Tandem

"Any intelligent fool can make things bigger and more complex ... It takes a touch of genius and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction." A. Einstein

"Less is more" Anon

Keith:
Below is a pic of my original TI taken back in 2010 (was posted on this forum) with a single 3/16 nylon rope which was clipped to the stainless cleat on the left AMA, then ran in front of the left AKA hull brace, behind the mast holder, then in front of the right AKA hull brace then clipped to the stainless padeye on the right AMA (I believe the exact same setup Tony uses)



That stupid little nylon rope does three things, If the nylon sheer bolt breaks the rope prevents the AMA from folding in completely. It prevents the AKA bars from popping out (I still had the bad AKA clips on the boat when pic was taken). The rope also holds tension on the AMA's so the don't flop around. If you look at the original bungys that are holding the AMA's on in the pic were the old 1/4" bungy material, and when offshore the waves would stretch the bungys and the AMA's would randomly fall off (actually quite often). The stupid little rope keeps tension on the AMA's so they don't flop around and rattle (that rattling used to drive me nuts, I felt the AMA's could come out pretty much anytime they wanted).
I later revised the design (using the same rope and clips) where I cut the rope in half and tied one to the left forward outer AKA brace on the hull (a cinch knot, with the line passing thru (like a hangmans knot)). It took all of two minutes to make the stuff, and none of it is ever removed from the boat, when done sailing I just unclip the clip and stuff the clip into the mesh pocket for storage. Actually I forgot to stuff them in the mesh pocket a couple times, and the clips drug on the road so they are all scratched and beat up now (but they still work 5 yrs later) In the following video (taken last year) if you look closely at the clips you will see they are all scratched and chopped up.
The video is just an overview on how I hardened my TI for offshore sailing, obviously my TI has been massively modified and specifically rigged for offshore and scuba diving sometimes many miles off the Florida keys. I always tell everyone it's the most dangerous place to sail that I know of, and not for the faint of heart, and if you don't live there and know the waters intimately don't go there (the most sailing unfriendly place I know of, and there are darn few small sailboats down there), just FYI.
Bob

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2BcdE0137Xk

Hope this helps

Yep, that's the way mine go.

_________________
Tony Stott
2012 Tandem Island "SIC EM" with Hobie spinnaker

Just saw your reply, FE. Thanks.

Keith

_________________
2015 AI 2, 2014 Tandem

"Any intelligent fool can make things bigger and more complex ... It takes a touch of genius and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction." A. Einstein

"Less is more" Anon

Peter at Bass Angler is looking at the parts and I'm sure he can get you on the water. Peter is a nice guy to work with as are most Hobie dealers.

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Steve Fields
Hobie Cat Australasia
Huskisson NSW Australia
http://www.hobiecat.com.au

Hi Tony,
I can replicate the issue on land and thats how i demonstrated it to the dealer, which understood and accepted my issue for further fix and investigation

Hi Team and Steve, Thank you for your replies and im giving you update of my progress.

1st week Reported issue to the forum and also called my dealer to explain my issue regarding aka(metal bar) disconnecting from cross member.

2nd week was informed by dealer that he contacted Hobie and they informed him its most likely debris or waste resulting from machining the cross members which is preventing the plastic spring clip fully extending and locking .
I was told to investigate and clean it up. As a result I made a special tool to remove the plastic clip from the inside of crossmember as not easy to remove.
I removed only one and no shavings found, put it back and aka still pulls/jerks out.

3rd week was told to bring it in for inspection which I did . I demonstrated my issue to the dealer and he understood stressing out they can fix it and wont let it out of his hand until its fixed.

4th week parts ordered by dealer (rear plastic clips) to be replaced.

5th week informed parts have been replaced and fixed ready for pickup. That weekend (today 9th May) I arrived to pick up kayak, before pickup i insisted to test again. Unfortunately test showed that left rear bar insert still came out and front right too. Previously all 3 came out . But right front seemed ok.

I left my kayak at the dealer and informed to take my safety seriously.
Now that’s my 2nd Saturdays wasted, and 200km+ traveled and back to square one. 5 weeks of no kayak which I paid top dollar for a brand new kayak which I cant use, only 3 months old.

Hobie will drive to the dealer pick your kayak up and return it to the factory for inspection. Please let us look into this. Very sorry for the inconvenience.

_________________
Steve Fields
Hobie Cat Australasia
Huskisson NSW Australia
http://www.hobiecat.com.au

Patr1:
If it were me and I wanted to use my boat, rather than just have it sit for weeks at a time while it goes around and around with Hobie and the dealers, just do any of the simple fixes me and KayakBob outlined, and the AKA bars will never fall off again. Once mine fell off the first time (when I lost a family member in the water and my reputation ruined (LOL)) I never trusted the system again (and never will), even though a few weeks after I reported the problem to Hobie and they sent me new clips a few weeks later, in 5 yrs of sailing my TI I have never gone out once without those safety ropes mounted and never will. We take our TI out most weekends year round and have a blast on the boat, I would not trade it in for anything else out there on the market. Making the safety ropes will take 5 minutes of your time and you only need to do this once, then you simply clip and unclip the ropes whenever you setup the boat, when done sailing you just unclip the clips and throw the ropes into the hull or stuff them into the mesh pockets.
From the factory the AI/TI boat is CE certified in the 'D' category, which is for protected inland water, lakes and rivers (not certified for off shore). The boat is a strictly recreational boat most specifically for new owners and families who want to get out on the water and have fun on an easy and quick boat to setup and just have fun on, many of whom have never sailed before ( a whole new generation of people). Many AI/TI owners are former power boaters who can no longer maintain the cost of ownership and fuel for their boats (a huge money pit (just FYI)) but still want to get out on the water and with nature with the family on a family boat. The other large group is kayakers who want to go out further,faster, and possibly into rougher conditions than is typical with a standard kayak (like offshore fishing).

Shortly after the boats came out on the market some of us hard core guys began to fathom and realize the true capabilities of the boat, especially the guys on the Islands like Hawaii, you Australians, and guys like me who sail offshore in the Florida Keys and SW Florida. With a few really simple mods like some of us have outlined, the AI/TI can become quite a capable boat in most conditions (within reason of course), and in an experienced sailers hands is probably one of the most capable small boats out on the market today, as Hobie states quite well, 'there is no day you can't go out sailing on an Island boat'. But all of us who do take our boats out in conditions beyond the design intent of the boat take the responsibility of this decision and all of us (without exception) have modified our boats for such use, with the correct safety equipment, plus the experience to do such things.
If your intent was to go way offshore, and do hard core sailing in sometimes pretty wild conditions, you may have bought the wrong boat, should have bought a CE 'C' certified boat like a Hobie Cat or a WETA or something designed for hard core stuff, but keep in mind they are all triple the price, and take way longer to rig, usually need to be stored someplace (like at a sailing club $$$), and in my opinion less versatile than an Island series boat (just my opinion). Personally I have no use for a boat without the Mirage drives (opens up a whole new world), but that's just me.
The biggest benefit most Island owners like is the simplicity of the boat, just back up up to the water, jump in clip a couple clips and start sailing (5-10 minutes tops), if there is no wind "no problem", If it's too windy just furl the sail. When done just throw it on the trailer (or cartop), rinse it off and you ready for your next adventure. We keep ours in our garage (no storage fees).
Get your darn boat back and just start using it, make a couple simple mods yourself so you feel safe (five minutes of your time), and your off to new adventures, you really will love it. Seriously there is nothing on the market that even holds a candle to what you have sitting at the dealer not being used.
Hope this explains things a little anyway....

Bob