Hobie - starck project

70's technology ain't cool enough to get someone off the Wii and into sailing. And it's not technically advanced enough for the techies. Either way you lose as a company. Stuck in the middle. Rotating lounge seats (so you don't have to get up to tack), drink holders, stereo, furling main, Starwars looks, now THAT has a chance. We're not the audience.

_________________
H18, H17 & Various motor boats

I think that 8 to 1 is over stated, on the first page of my 1978 hobie 18 owners manual Hobie Alter sr. says that the 18 was built for rec sailing and suggested that you could keep beer in the hulls when out for a sail. I love hobie racing, but I believe rec sailing needs to be more of a focus. People stoped buying the 17 and 18, because the factory focus started to lean to the racing aspect of their sales. Hey my boat is in great shape I don't give a crap what they build ,my opinion is if you want a larger group of sailors to buy hobies the 16 & 18 are the best design yet. And now days look at the price of a 16.

_________________
Bodhisatfa

That IS the focus of the Hobie Cat Company (USA), but Hobie Cat Europe does their own thing. WE have the Bravo, Wave, Getaway, Adventure Island and all of the Mirage kayaks models have sail accessory mounts (for sail kits)... that all sell VERY well. Hobie Europe is trying, at least, to listen to the consultants they hired many years ago that said... focus on rec sailing. That was just before the Wild Cat, Carbon FX1 and others they have come out with since then.

_________________
Matt Miller
Former - Director of Parts and Accessory Sales
Warranty and Technical Support
Hobie Cat USA
(Retired 11/7/2022)

Personally, I believe that right now is a good time to take the Henry Ford approach.

I'd design an easy to maintain, reliable sailboat without a ton of perks that is fun to sail and cheaper to buy than what consumers are used to.

Sure, that sounds like a no-brainer, but I'm talking about a $1,000 to maybe $1,300 sailboat that's quick to make and due to being much cheaper, and probably smaller in dimensions, would be something that could be set up on a retail floor for display.

This would take Hobie Cat sailboats out of the "Dealer Only" category and enable major retailers, like Dicks Sporting Goods, REI, etc. to display actual boats as well.

It would benefit Hobie Cat in several ways. First, it would put the brand in front of a TON of consumers who wouldn't normally see Hobie products. For example, there are probably many retailers that have Hobie Cat fishing and/or Kayaking products that may not even turn the heads of those not currently looking for that type of product, or just aren't interested in general, but a fully erected production style Hobie Cat on display sets off the imagination, and in that price point it becomes a possible impulse buy for a large segment of consumers that Hobie just doesn't have access to right now for the sailing products.

Right now there are a large number of Hobie fans out there, and from what I can tell, it seems that the majority are either born into it, turned onto the sport by a friend, or have experienced a Hobie Cat on vacation.

In order for the company to grow and stay relevant, there needs to be an influx of new sailors, new fans, and therefore new Hobie Cat advocates.

A cheap production Hobie Cat, made simply, but well, would provide a vibrant fan base. More importantly, it provides a base of Hobie Cat consumers that eventually will want to upgrade to more exciting, or more relevant Hobie products that more closely fit their style of fun.

Maybe the cheap production Hobie Cat is a base catamaran that will sail nicely, but can be extended or upgraded to support its' owners style. So you've paid $1,199.49 for your new sailboat. The thing looks great, sails great, but you want more. Your wife loves the boat, and the price you paid means you gained some points with her for being fiscally responsible while upgrading the family's method of having FUN. You have a little bit of money to play with, and when you were on the Hobie Cat website, you saw that some owners are getting together for some small races, but that they've upgraded their mast to be a little taller and therefore have a little more sail area too, for only $499 for the mast, and another $150 for a sail extension. Not really that much money, but man, it would be like a new boat, and literally fly compared to how it is now.

So now we've got them to buy the base boat for $1,199.49, and within months the guy just can't stand it, he needs to go faster, so now we've already gotten another $649 from him for a taller mast and sail extension.

At some point, this boat is going on craigslist, or is going to be handed down, and this guy is going to upgrade to a larger boat.

And when his son says "Dad, I'd like a kayak for my birthday", or "Dad, how about a paddle board?", the first thing this Dad is going to think is: "Hey, I need to check with Hobie first for these things".

Anyway, this is my opinion. The market is ripe for this. And this cheap production boat could be sold in groups to resorts.

Main goals for the boat:

- easy to upgrade
- easy to rig and sail
- easy to display in a retail setting
- conforms to Hobie quality standards, end to end
- design several upgrades, that should roll out the same time as the sailboat, not after, in order to keep them in front of the buyer from the start
- is presented to consumers that probably don't have a Hobie Cat, or didn't know that they could afford one

Have a good one,

Andy Crane

_________________
- Andy
=> Hobie Cat 14 <=
=> 1978 Chrysler 26' Herreschoff Designed Monohull <=

That IS the focus of the Hobie Cat Company (USA), but Hobie Cat Europe does their own thing. WE have the Bravo, Wave, Getaway, Adventure Island and all of the Mirage kayaks models have sail accessory mounts (for sail kits)... that all sell VERY well. Hobie Europe is trying, at least, to listen to the consultants they hired many years ago that said... focus on rec sailing. That was just before the Wild Cat, Carbon FX1 and others they have come out with since then.[/quote

I understand, I just wish we could trade the getaway for the 18, and market the 18 better. Thanks for the input Matt.

_________________
Bodhisatfa

Could you disclose the production/sales numbers of the Hobie models? I am curious to see what really is going on in there. Also, what is the MSRP for some of these new boats? I think I saw somewhere on here that the Getaway sells for like $7000, which seems insane!

I won't tell you what my new boat costs.

As far as insane. I don't know, this is the cheapest hobby I've ever had.

Tell me tell me! I am knew and I only have $620 invested so far in my 1989 Hobie 16 and I basically have doubles of everything so I have no idea what these both are really worth.

We don't disclose production and sales numbers for several reasons.

List prices? Reality check for you... In the USA you can buy a Hobie Mirage Sport (Kayak) and add a sail kit for just over $1,800. That would be the least expensive sailing craft we sell. An Adventure Island is $3,399, the Getaway is just under $7,000 and a Hobie 16 sells for $9,600 these days.

You aren't going to see a quality sailing craft for $1,200. Maybe the Snark or something similar.

We have done the "Big Box" department sales thing. It doesn't work well. You need dedicated and skilled sales staff. Even with kayaks (which are pretty simple)... these stores just don't do it right and service after the sales is seriously lacking, so we try to stick with speciality stores.

We have your basic concept running with the current line of cats and kayaks. Complete upgrades available now with full color catalogs of stuff to add. Its working.

_________________
Matt Miller
Former - Director of Parts and Accessory Sales
Warranty and Technical Support
Hobie Cat USA
(Retired 11/7/2022)

I have stated before that used Hobie's can be found everywhere. The '83 14T that I have has run me about $1700 with new rigging and damm near everything sans the mast, tramp frame and hulls has been replaced. She's old but rock solid and beautiful. I think anyone would be very hard pressed to find a boat of ANY type that will hold up like Hobie Cat's do. I do believe that there are LOTS of sailors out there who would love to see the 14 made again, fiberglass...not rotomolded. I have had incredible reactions to my boat here in Charleston. Every time I am out in the harbor or off one of our barrier islands people stop me on the beach, at the ramp or in the water and ask tons of questions about her. There is a whole new generation of people who have never even seen a Hobie before! If I had a dozen 14's in the past 4 months I could have sold EVERY one of them. I think the marketing needs to just be retooled a little. If people want a kayak they buy one. When people I have talked to think of Hobie or mention the name, people think SAILING not some hybrid kayak. I wear my "flying H" hat with pride, sailing pride.

_________________
Sean Wheeler
[email protected]
http://hobie-14.ning.com/profile/SeanWheeler
'83 Hobie 14 Turbo "Rio"
Blue Hawaii Sail #40954

And a reality check on the reality check:

In 1973, my father bought our first new Hobie 16 for $1,237. (~$6,100 in 2009 dollars) We had to pick it up from the dealer in the boxes and put it together.
In 1983, I bought my first new Hobie 16 for $3,300 ($7,163 in 2009 dollars). It came framed up.
I forget what I paid for my 1989 and 1998 boats.
In 2007, I bought my current Hobie 16 for $7,500 ($7,820 in 2009 dollars). It also came framed up (at my insistence).

The 2007 boat has better rudders (carbon EPOs), better sails, a better trampoline, better main and jib travellers, etc, etc. And, it weighs 8 lbs under minimum weight. It's far and away the best 16 I've ever owned.

Yes, the price has gone up faster than inflation, but so has the quality. Unfortunately, that seems lost on a lot of people that are happy with the money hole they've picked up off Craig's List.

Do you think they would have the same reaction if you told them they could have a new one for ~$6,000? That's probably on the low side of what they would cost if they were still in production today. Sure, they're a deal at $1,700. I've got less than $3K invested in mine, and most of that is in the new sail, tramp and rudders.

I think the "sweet spot" price-wise is under $5K. Which is where the Wave is.

That is a great question. I think the $5,000 range is what most people with that kind of "disposable" income would spend. There are a TON of boaters here in Chucktown. Lots of small center console powerboats (15 to 21 feet) and about 40% of these people are now trying to get rid of them. Many would turn to sailing if they could. The people I have talked with like the look, feel, and overall style of the fiberglass Hobie's. No one I have talked to likes the look of the roto-boats. I had my 14 next to a Wave and one nice lady said it was like having a Ferrari parked next to a Tank.

I respect all opinions here and am not trying to start an argument, especially with Mr. Bounds or Mr. Miller. I have too much respect for you both. I just was offering my opinion, and as they say..."opinions are like ......and they all stink". Take care.

_________________
Sean Wheeler
[email protected]
http://hobie-14.ning.com/profile/SeanWheeler
'83 Hobie 14 Turbo "Rio"
Blue Hawaii Sail #40954

Interesting info posted here. Yeah I think while it would be nice to find a nice sailboat for $1000-$1300 new, but these things don't make themselves and for Hobie to make any money on something like that it would have to be made of 2x4's and bed sheets. You have to pay to play, one day I will make the investment into something nicer like what you guys have!

I can see the obvious reasons why you cant list production/sale numbers but could we get a range? Where are hobies built? You should post some eye candy of the production of these boats....Ive always loved the "How its Made" show on discovery.....let us in! Who owns Hobie?



Cool post



You say that,.....but the same thing happens when I drive my 1983 Fiat Spyder Pininfarina everywhere. Everyone loves to come talk about it and wish they had a car like it. However, now that its for sale.....crickets!

I think the new Kayaks Hobie sells are pretty damn awesome! If no one is buying the sailboats its time to adapt to what is selling.




Most people are clueless (like me) to sailing here in the US. I agree that it wouldnt be the right time to sell in a department store.

I represent that remark!

_________________
H18, H17 & Various motor boats