Hobie USA, Dated Designs?

We are very successful because we know the business. Hobie Cat will be around for many, many more years because of our knowledge of the market. Trust us on that.

Yes we are still marketing high performance...

Yes we directly support racing...

We still have a very commited group of people here who love the high end stuff and racing, but the reality for Hobie Cat today is not trying to figure out what might sell (as most companies do), but which to do first.

If there comes a product in the high performance end that makes sense... we will design it or build it. Simply throwing millions of dollars at marketing does not do it. We can not force feed the market to accept an idea.

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Matt Miller
Former - Director of Parts and Accessory Sales
Warranty and Technical Support
Hobie Cat USA
(Retired 11/7/2022)

Exactly(deja vu?) So you and four other guys in the US had a FOX, and how many of those kite boarders could afford to own, or wanted the hassle of setup breakdown? (BTW, I would have been begging you for a ride also)

They could afford a stock 18 I'll bet. Wait, oh yeah, not so excited now.

Especially believe this statement to be true.



Start asking people under 40 if they know what a Hobie Cat is. It's not a household name anymore.

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hobiejohn at earthlink dot net
Fleet 297

As a windsurfer for the past 24 years.

Windsurfing at the Gorge is atypical of windsurfing. It has as much in common with the average windsurfing venue as the Trifoiler has in common with the average Hobie Cat.

And if you'd followed windsurfing, you would have seen the evolution from the 12' long boards, to the wind-snob sinkers, to the wide-board revolution and now back to long boards.

As for the cheaper and easier:

My windsurfing cargo trailer weighs 3000 lbs loaded.

The typical windsurfing beginner package averages around $2k. I have beginners walk out of here having spent $3k. But that's the equivalent of trying to play a round of golf with a putter and a sand wedge. Your average windsurfer probably has as much money invested in windsurfing gear as the average Hobie sailor has in his/her boat.

If you want extremes, the contents of my trailer are probably worth more than a fully outfitted Tiger on a trailer. My empty trailer cost more than a Hobie Bravo on a trailer. I killed a 1/2 ton truck traveling to windsurf, where a 4 cylinder Mustang did fine pulling my Hobie.



Cheaper? Easier to pack? Care to guess again?

Brian C

Holy crud! What do you have in there?

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Tim
Unofficial Fleet 72 Communications Officer and Div 4 Webmaster
http://www.hobiefleet72.org
http://www.div4.hobieclass.com/

Depending on the time of the year,

9 windsurfers
2 surfboards
1 boogie board
8 masts
15 sails
7 booms
and three big footlockers of parts (fins, mast feet, mast extensions, harnesses, uphauls, rigging tools, nuts, screws, etc)

The pile of boards used to look like this.



That's was just the boards.

My Formula kit (one race board, two sails, mast, boom, parts to connect them) is worth more than a Wave.

I have a foot locker full of different fins that's probably worth a Bravo.

And I'm not any more addicted than most cat sailors are to their boats.

Brian C

I knew this topic would get some responses.

In my eyes HC, has either lost direction or has shifted away from what made them exciting and popular to begin with. Hobie became a household name for their exciting high performance cats, sort of the extreme sport of their time. Today they seem to have let others take over the the high tech / high performance end of the cat market and they now cater to the little plastic boat resort crowd. Plastic cats are good for todays sales but offer little in the way of excitement (comparatively speaking). Instead of Hobie selling extreme excitement, they now offer extreme durability. Plastic cats and kayaks are cool, but I don't think of Hobie when I think of small plastic boats. I'm sure this new thing they are coming out with will sell well for a short period of time, but ten years from now??? Ask anyone who knew the Hobie name ten years ago what HC made and they would tell you cats. What about ten years from now???

Ultimately I think they are being near sited and slowly but surely writing themselves out of the cat market... which is what made them famous to begin with and what should still be their core competence. Keep doing the plastic stuff and bringing new innovative designs to the market, but HC NEEDS to offer high tech flagship cats as well to maintain their identity... even if they are not money makers.


Just my 2 cents.

Any boat that you have to sit on the bottom of, capsized, if you aren't moving isn't for me

Incidentally, having skiffs and cats out there drives the paramedics and sherrif insane. People from the shore keep calling 911 when they see a flipped boat...

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Tim
Unofficial Fleet 72 Communications Officer and Div 4 Webmaster
http://www.hobiefleet72.org
http://www.div4.hobieclass.com/

Who do people think of when you say performance catamarans? Nacra/Inter (Performance Catamarans, whatever)? They're the only other active US beach-cat manufacturer at the moment (correct me if I'm wrong). The only other boats that get any sort of imports are the A-Cats and Tornados (are there any domestic Tornado builders? I don't think anyone home-builds these anymore, though you could) from Europe and Australia. Is anyone else even going? In order for Hobie to lose its name in Performance Catamarans there'd have to be someone else to take it.

I don't think a performance cat is a bad idea but...I say keep pushing the Tiger.

A Hobie A-Cat would be interesting - there was a post a while back that HC-Europe was working on one but abandoned it when it wouldn't be ready for the next season. Fun to watch, but I'd never be able to afford one...plus I like a crew

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Tim
Unofficial Fleet 72 Communications Officer and Div 4 Webmaster
http://www.hobiefleet72.org
http://www.div4.hobieclass.com/

Me niether, been there, done that and I'm getting too old. That's extreme sailing though. Young people are doing it.

Point being, seems most sailing kids that are going to get a boat are looking at hp dinghies, skiffs, etc. Suggest a boat and their question is, "Does it have a kite?". They percieve a little boat they can throw on a dolly that has a kite is as fast and more fun than a Hobie 16.

Give me a good arguement, F18?...too big.

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hobiejohn at earthlink dot net
Fleet 297

Well, the best point here is that a smaller boat for the younger crowd, with a kite...looks like Hobie Europe has those boats, for the progression of younger sailors into the sport.

But, to support those, you need sailing schools and clubs. We are starting to get that going here in Division 4 - Jericho Sailing in Vancouver BC and Sail Sandpoint in Seattle are starting to have a vibrant youth program (they use Waves, which are nice for the very beginning but don't give anything for a crew to do). You can't sail a Hobie reliabley on the Columbia at Portland/Vancouver (lots of current and unstable, often light winds). The Vancouver Lake Sailing club hosted our first Hobie 101 in the area - but the lake is closed to swimmers mid-summer as it gets too nasty - which doesn't close it to sailors, but I end up wet enough on a Hobie that...eww. I'll leave it to the kayakers and keelboats. Plus, the mosquitos are the size of 747's, and the lake's 6 feet deep with 4 feet of mud. Not sure where we'd put it, but I'd love to start a Catamaran Sailing program down here.

If we had this all over the country, we'd be able to support a smaller, lighter performance cat. Maybe an F16 - I have no idea what this class is doing, where it is popular, or how fast it is spreading.

Supply and demand - you can create the supply and hope there's a demand, or you can create the demand and then supply.

Our fleet, 72, has been built up form basically nothing in the last few years. In the 80's, the fleet was huge and active, as were many around the country. Now, you can jet-ski, wakeboard, windsurf, or kite-board on the water - people have forgotten catamarans and when reminded, there is competition. Hopefully, we are changing this. We had a 'public sail' early in the year where we invited one and all - so many smiles even through the wet jeans and shivering teeth (not to the guys - let's do it later in the year next time ) Our Hobie 101 was a resounding success. I saw a story of A-Cats taking their boats to the mall to promote sailing - perhaps we can do this (with the Coast Guard and various sherrif's to promote 'Wear Your Life-Jacket' or some-such).

The world is wet! Yes, your kids can play baseball, tap-dance, or play soccer, but we need to let them and their parents know that they can also race catamarans!

Whoa. That got way too..theatric. *Swell patriotic music*

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Tim
Unofficial Fleet 72 Communications Officer and Div 4 Webmaster
http://www.hobiefleet72.org
http://www.div4.hobieclass.com/

Ask ANYONE about a catamaran on the water and they will think it is a Hobie Cat. Show most people a Hobie Wave and they think wow... High Performance! I was just in an electronics store last night. What was the image they showed on the TV (on the box)? A Hobie Wave.

We DO have the top high performance products and the brand recognition. "We" just build them in France... It is a BIG company to the average consumer. We have 8 models in the US line up. Most consumers want value and durability and are very happy with the high performance of the Bravo, Wave and Getaway.

Most of our product is going to retail users, not rental. I don't know why some people think that except that our products are the ONLY cat products in most rentals now. We sell thousands of these things to retail buyers. A majority of the sales actually.

_________________
Matt Miller
Former - Director of Parts and Accessory Sales
Warranty and Technical Support
Hobie Cat USA
(Retired 11/7/2022)

Great discussion! From a dealers perspective, I sell way more rotomolded boats than fiberglass cats. When someone is looking for a high performance boat I guide them of course to the Tiger and the FX-One etc. This year I have sold a good number of FX's, and I personally think it is a perfect all around boat for a lot of people. People don't like the price tag of the high performance boats, but you gotta pay to play. And actually, compared to many other manufactures, they're a bargain. If people have a hard time spending $15,000 for a very cool double hander like the Tiger, I'm not sure I would be very successful selling a buch of $25,000 single handed A-class cats that have to be replaced every few years. The market is just not here in the US yet.

I have a hand in the A class game. It is very difficult to keep one step ahead of the next guy, it's such an arms race. New carbon mast with adj diamond tension= $4000+tax and shipping, because you're old mast got too much sun, titanium bow shackle to save 2 grams of weight over stainless steel= $57. It goes on and on. It is a very nitch market that is difficult to service. I do it because it's a very cutting edge class and it's neat to see the innovation, but it's not a huge part of my income. It is, however, a good way for consumers to spend a lot of money, ask any of the top class competitors!

After the area G Alter Cup Qualifier last year my friend, on his $500 1975 H 14, finished the first day in 5th, behind all other Hobies. Where were the Aclass? Back at the yacht club! There was too much wind and they didn't want to break their boats (20kts). The best quote I have ever heard regarding this subject was from an A class sailor and went something like, "I don't think I had $24,000 more fun than that guy today". A-class are great boats, but you have to be committed to fork out some dough and they are fragile--no beach launching!!

And, as far as a company, I think Hobie is doing great job coming up with new stuff. And, they are the best as far as having the parts I need when I need them. Try getting parts for for an a-class built in another country. It usually takes 3 weeks and often 3 months, depending on the manufacturer. Have you ever shipped a carbon fiber cross bar from Australia? It's pricy.

An A-class from Hobie would be pretty cool, but it would probably be a one shot deal and not profitable in the long run. A-class manufacturers go through waves of popularity. 2 years ago it was AHPC, now it's the A2 from Performance (BTW the same guys helped design the Hobie Wave), who knows the next one? Don't discount the innovation of theHobie kayaks, they're absolutely "top of the line" great boats.

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Sail Revolution
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I am realatively new to this whole Hobie Cat thing but I would like to say that there is almost no reach to my generation. I am 20 years old and born in 1986. When I bought my boat not a single on of my friends knew what Hobie was. Most of them thought I was saying that I had a new Hobby while in reality I was saying Hobie. The only reason I knew what one was was that my uncle had a 16 years ago. That one ride on a 16 all those years ago had kept it in my mind. Now, I go out almost every weekend if not twice a week.

I think that if Hobie wants to boost their market and sales they need to reach out to the late teens to early 20's crowd. Most of us are strapped for cash but can afford a 16 or something like that, in my case a used 14. I would love to see some advertising or something that reached out for my generation. Since I bought my cat I have gotten one of my best friends into it, he bought his own 14. Everyone that we have taken out have loved it, there is a huge market for small fast cats, the first company to realize this will make alot of money. I would kill to see the fleets that I hear about from the 70's and 80's. I do not know what it would take to see that again but I know that most cat sailors would love to see it also.

As for higher performance boats like A-cats and some of those others, that would be nice but are they really worth the cash. I don't think that they have that much more fun than me!

I am curious to see how the new AI sells, and sails, but I do not see it taking off in the midwest anywhere. Most people around here hardly know what a hobie is much less a Hobie Kayak.

To finish I will say that to draw my generation in Hobie is going to have to let people see their boats. Maybe a tour around the country stopping at major lakes with advertising in advance. If I few people got to take a ride they would be hooked. Also if Hobie needs a rep in the midwest... well I usually have my summers off and would love a new boat to give rides on. Just an idea, maybe a brand new 17, I think I could draw in some new customers!!!

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Nacra 5.2 "Elsies"
Hobie 14T, "Blazin" I guess I am keeping her!

More toward the middle (higher age end...) of the scale (I'm 52), I've sailed the H14 when I was in my late teens, the H6 later one, then went cruising (think 44') while my Hobie "roted" on its trailer in southern Oregon.

I now live in Portland, but I'm no longer in a great shape, so I went back to Hobie. I oogled the 17', but knew that I wouldn't do it justice or use it as much as I wanted, so I bought a Getaway and a Mirage (mainly for my son), and I have an AI on order.

Yes, these boats may not be as hot as the latest high performance boards and cats, but they get me on the water any day I want with no hassle (think minimum setup, no boom, get up-launch-go).

HC is doing a great job catering to folks like me who still love the thrill of speed and everything Hobies have to offer, but can no longer (I really need to get in shape!) race or no longer have the time to deal with setting up complex boats for a couple hours sailing after work.

I, also, would like cheaper boats, but I sill bit the bullet and got a Getaway rather than the Wave because I wanted the larger more comfi boat. It's cheaper than pay a shrink because I'm depressed!

Sorry to post again so soon about this same topic but I have been thinking about it alot. Hobie is a great company and I did not seem to run them down at all. There is a market for people who like to sail easier, like Xavier, but no offense older guys but you are all not going to be around for ever. If Hobie wants to stay in business for years they are going to need to get younger people into sailing cats.

I forgot to say in my last message that I have also gotten two pharmacists that I work with into cat sailing. Both of them bought used 16's. I had to teach each of them how to sail them, once again I could do some great advertising!!!

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Nacra 5.2 "Elsies"
Hobie 14T, "Blazin" I guess I am keeping her!