Replacement Parts for the H18

Where the heck did that come from?!?! Obviously you don't know me. Or didn't see the thread on the 21SE bearings. And frankly, I'd like an apology. Because you accusations are out of line.

But I have to say - with some of the abuse I've taken lately despite busting my butt to help, I'm starting to feel less generous with my time. Because I make the same salary whether I do nothing or go out of my way. So I think for awhile I'll stick to taking care of the customers who walk through the door.

Bye
Brian C

I do apologize Brian. You didn't make the statement, Jeremy did. I saw it more than once and confused the author. Don't let my rant stop you from doing what you feel is right and fair for customers.

Yep. But only recently at a North Americans or a Worlds. It's unlikely to happen at a points regatta, but I've been forced to have my boat weighed at one (in the early 90's).

In 1999, a top 10 team at the 16 Continentals was politely asked to withdraw from the event (on the last day) when it was found they were cheating on their crew weight. They just disappeared from the results as if they weren't there.

Ha, That's ridiculous. You don't know me at all. It's not that I won't, it's that sometimes I can't.
You roll up to the shop with your H18 square top and ask me a technical question, I can't really help you, I have no experience with the fittings on your boat. Stock 18 no problem.

At some point I have to think about my bottom line though. Stand by...

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Sail Revolution
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If you were me, when would you stop offering service to people that don't buy from you or your network of dealers?

I wrote my first post just after getting a couple of phone calls from people needing help with their, "New Aftermarket Squaretop Main" that are so highly touted on the forums. I'm happy to help sailors get out on the water even if they don't buy stuff from me. I like sailboats and am happy to offer up service, but at some point my taking phone calls like that becomes unfair to my paying customers, and not worth it to my bottom line.

The reason people were calling me was that neither of them have been able to reach the sail manufacturer for 3 weeks and they were pretty angry. I may not answer my customer's calls all the time, but I usually call back before 3 weeks.

Another guy that needed help with their aftermarket SQ top on an 18, saw it on the internet and thought it looked cool so he bought one. He is using some untapered, heavy battens, stock downhaul and has no idea how to trim the sail to his all aluminum rig. I saw a stock 18 with rags sailing circles around him last weekend due to the fact that only about 1/2 of his sail is working.

People are way better off sailing with their rags and taking the money they saved to get out to the water and actually get some tiller time. The technology may help you if you've already got your boat dialed, but if you're just kind of learning, it's going to create a giant headache, and guaranteed, your boat will be slower. You also need to modify some other stuff on your boat to make it usable. Things that people, especially noobs (under 5 years sailing) don't fully understand.

I went out to help one guy with the SQ top and spent about an hour getting measurements and offering some (minimal) help. While looking at the boat, I noticed there was a new sewn aftermarket tramp starting to come loose at the seams, all Staset X from West Marine, some giant 57 mm Harken air blocks for the jib sheets, and a home built forestay made from 7X19 3/32 wire on the rigging bench at West Marine.
I asked how much the forestay cost to build...$107...Stock Hobie in the right length and right wire, ends around $60. The Jib blocks he had cost about $100 each, the correct ones sell for around $10. I just saved him $200 and it would've been right.

This guy walks by my shop all the time and he actually thought that he bought the tramp from me and questioned me about the seams coming out on a 6 month old tramp. To which I promptly replied that I actually use the stuff that I sell and try not to sell junk--he didn't get it from me, or I would've called MMiller and had a new one drop shipped to him with an apology. That's how we do it. And that's why OEM is better.

One of the best things about Hobie is the customer service network. I've never worked for any other company that I can call up and get Warranty Authorization over the phone on my word, it just doesn't happen. Having uniform boats with little variation helps the dealers figure out what you need when you're stuck out at the lake and need some advice. I have people call all the time from the launch ramp, needing some help rigging their boat. The aftermarket products oftentimes will cost way more in the long run due to their inferior quality. And, once you purchase them there is usually no warranty/ technical support if things go wrong or you don't understand something. You're on your own. And that my friends is why I primarily stock OEM. The aftermarket tramps always cause me more trouble than they're worth. The margin on aftermarket is better than OEM sometimes, but the headache, just isn't worth it. If anyone out there understands business, that last sentience should tell you something pretty poignant.

One more thing...
Hardly any other company even offers up a manufacturers forum. Those that have, either have a really good product or immediately shut down their forums due to massive public criticism. Though I think a certain amount of public criticism is helpful for businesses, I can name 3 in the marine industry that shut down their forums only weeks after starting them. This is a testament to Hobie's ability to provide outstanding customer support. Where else can you get top people in their sport on a public forums? We have instant access to 2 Top of the fleet Tiger sailors, some great 16 sailors, a tech guy that's been at Hobie for almost 30 years etc. etc.

When you buy OEM Hobie, you buy access to this forum (sort of).

So please Mr. NCMBM with all due respect, from a business perspective, should I continue to walk out on the beach, spending hours helping people for free, and answering technical questions on the phone from people that don't even buy stuff from me or other Hobie dealers? This is my job. Do you go to work for free? I do every time I help someone tune in their aftermarket this or that (everyday).

This is my last post in this thread.

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Sail Revolution
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Thats correct, I don't know either of you. All I have to judge you by is your posts. I'm not trying to stir or upset, it just struck me odd that you would state that you wouldn't help a skipper sort out batten length on an aftermarket square top. Why not? I have a Tiger rig on a 18 platform, very modified, complete with self-tacking jib. You know the 18 and the Tiger, wouldn't you help me sort my boat out? I have and will support my local dealer as I'm sure you hope skippers in your region will for you. My boat is 100% Hobie, nothing aftermarket except lines. Mesh tramp and wing tramps, the works. Sorry if I offended either of you, that was not my intention.

Jeremy's comments were that he wouldn't have the necessary backup information to help with non-Hobie parts and he wouldn't have the technical experience to properly diagnose a problem with an aftermarket sail. Certainly he would help anyone if he could.

Thats all.

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Matt Miller
Former - Director of Parts and Accessory Sales
Warranty and Technical Support
Hobie Cat USA
(Retired 11/7/2022)

Sorry Jeremy, you posted before I sent the last post. To answer your direct question....yes, I do work for free alot of the time. I do much design and consultation work for customers only to have them use my specs and find a better price elsewhere. Its a cost of doing business, sometimes you win sometimes you lose. I understand the rub of helping and getting nothing for the effort. Again, I am not trying to make you upset. I asked the question to understand the resistance. I understand your response and can appreciate it. Guess I'm still a believer that every good thing you do comes back around. I also answer many questions from users of this forum online and off. I have nothing to gain from it but the experience of helping others learn as I learn. I'm no stellar racer, just a guy that likes to go fast in the ocean. Sorry to have offended you and Brian!

Since Jeremy stated

I'll try to answer

You (ncmbm) asked

Jeremy did help, even when the sail maker wouldn't return their calls for three weeks
Jeremy'sJeremy also stated (paraphrasing) it would take a lot of his time (that he coould be spending with his customers) to "learn" this aftermarlet sail and make it work for this gentlemen. And Jeremy at least tried to do just that anyway.

You (ncmbm) asked
Now you're working with Hobie stuff! Jeremy knows much more about the Tiger sails (and/or as stated by one of his customers), can defer you to Tiger sailors (his customers) for further advice. Jeremy put a spin kit on a Getaway, what you're doing (have done) is right down his alley. Jeremy WOULD help you sort out your boat.

Jeremy helped me "sort out" a 14 front beam, the only parts I've EVER bought from him AND I'm half way across the country. With all Hobie dealers I've dealt with since '81 (eight), this attention to service is the rule, rather than the exception.

EDIT sorry ncmbm, you posted while I was writing

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Sheet In...Max Out
www.fleet297.org
sailflatlands at gmail dot com

Hear Hear!!!!!

And if you cannot support your local Hobie Dealer, support A Hobie Dealer somewhere !!
What cha gonna do when the last one is gone ????
Buy from West Marine cause they are the only ones left ::::Shudder:::::

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If the grass is greener on the other side of the fence, maybe it is time to water your own lawn.

Well I will say one thing.. A) where the hell did Dog get that gun? Yea everythings bigger in Texas, so I've heard, but thats supposed to be on a tank, not the back of your truck..freaks

anyways, I'm in the process of buying a new tramp and want the newer design for the Tiger. However when I looked up the price in the catalogue I immediately burned the page and I think I may have even cried a little I dunno. I know this has to do with Hobie Europe and all but that thing better come with a sexy french maid if you're going to convince me to buy it over a custom one.

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Tiger 947/2364

Two things about parts from HCE Europe that make them more expensive. The exchange rate, and shipping.

I have to chime in on the quality of the Hobie tramp. Mine's 20 years old, and besides having to replace the hiking straps and that it's a faded blue now, it is still in great shape, has no wear at the bolt ropes and can take a tightening like it was new.

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Chris
'88 H18SE Arís

And don't we all know that no matter which Hobie you might be sailing, there is nothing quite as nice as a "tight tramp"

Oh, and honey, while you're out on the wire, "spread your legs....... for stability"!!!!

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If the grass is greener on the other side of the fence, maybe it is time to water your own lawn.

whoops! skip the curb... go right to the gutter! :wink:

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Chris
'88 H18SE Arís