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Karl Brogger
PostPosted: Wed Dec 09, 2009 7:51 pm 
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rsbw wrote:
I had my 14 next to a Wave and one nice lady said it was like having a Ferrari parked next to a Tank.


:roll:

It's all a matter of perspective.
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andercranster
PostPosted: Wed Dec 09, 2009 8:40 pm 
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wasn't trying to ruffle any feathers. I'm new to Hobie myself, and just had an idea that I felt like posting.

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Nevek
PostPosted: Wed Dec 09, 2009 9:22 pm 
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andercranster wrote:
wasn't trying to ruffle any feathers. I'm new to Hobie myself, and just had an idea that I felt like posting.



You and me both! I look at it this way, surfboards are selling for $700-$900 now, paddleboards are a grand..... A sailboat has so many pieces/parts/more complex......no way they could make one for $1300. Heck, if I were hobie, they probably need at least a grand in mark up per boat to cover variable costs.
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rsbw
PostPosted: Wed Dec 09, 2009 9:24 pm 
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Karl Brogger wrote:
It's all a matter of perspective.


Karl,

Is that your FX One (sail #434) on the Fleet 444 web site? Now THATS a FERRARI!! :mrgreen:

Beautiful boat!

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MBounds
PostPosted: Wed Dec 09, 2009 9:24 pm 
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rsbw wrote:
MBounds wrote:
Do you think they would have the same reaction if you told them they could have a new one for ~$6,000?


That is a great question. I think the $5,000 range is what most people with that kind of "disposable" income would spend. There are a TON of boaters here in Chucktown. Lots of small center console powerboats (15 to 21 feet) and about 40% of these people are now trying to get rid of them. Many would turn to sailing if they could. The people I have talked with like the look, feel, and overall style of the fiberglass Hobie's. No one I have talked to likes the look of the roto-boats. I had my 14 next to a Wave and one nice lady said it was like having a Ferrari parked next to a Tank.

I respect all opinions here and am not trying to start an argument, especially with Mr. Bounds or Mr. Miller. I have too much respect for you both. I just was offering my opinion, and as they say..."opinions are like ......and they all stink". Take care.


I wasn't trying to put you down, Sean - just a reality check. On the flip side, I got laughed at at my YC (well, maybe not laughed at, but there were certainly snickers) when I went practicing on my 14 for the North Americans. Most of those guys sail F18s (I used to have one - talk about a money hole!). They weren't laughing so much when I told them it cost less than 20% of what they had "invested" in their rides.

Different strokes for different folks.
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Karl Brogger
PostPosted: Thu Dec 10, 2009 7:03 am 
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rsbw wrote:
Is that your FX One (sail #434) on the Fleet 444 web site? Now THATS a FERRARI!! :mrgreen:


Yep, that's mine. Could be yours. Its for sale.
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divimon2000
PostPosted: Thu Dec 10, 2009 7:26 am 
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I'll probably get pipe bombs in the mail for Xmas for saying this but if I was Hobie I'd think about ditching the 16 for an F-16 rotomolded. Kinda the "wannabe" but more affordable.

Department store boat is the ultimate but won't fly for the reasons Matt explains. Those dudes can't even sell the kayaks. I know the glass products are the high-end cool rides but you need to have volume on the low end to be able to pay for the high-end (sometimes loss-leaders) boats.

Stark will win for HCE if executed right.

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Karl Brogger
PostPosted: Thu Dec 10, 2009 8:22 am 
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divimon2000 wrote:
I'll probably get pipe bombs in the mail for Xmas for saying this but if I was Hobie I'd think about ditching the 16 for an F-16 rotomolded. Kinda the "wannabe" but more affordable.


F16 minimum class weight is ~240#'s. I'm not sure a 16' rotomolded boat could be built to that weight, or even close.

I'd assume one of the reasons the Wave meets its price point is simplicity. I'm not sure even a budget orientated hull would get a two up, spinnaker equipped catamaran below $10k. If they could pull it off that would be an awesome move.

The H16 will probably out last us all.

Matt Miller- You should really write an article for the Hotline that goes through the proccess for getting a boat like the Wave to production. That would be an awesome read. Initial design phases, working with Melvin&Morelli, changes, testing, new tooling requirements, etc. I'd love to read something like that.
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Little Wing
PostPosted: Thu Dec 10, 2009 9:00 am 
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The 16 will and should outlast us all, and as long as Hobie has not cut up the moulds for the 18,(like roger macgregor did with the mac 25) then put it back in production, only make what you can sell and market the boat for what it is, the best all around family racer and pleasure sailboat ever built.

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Sail Revolution
PostPosted: Thu Dec 10, 2009 9:24 am 
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divimon2000 wrote:
I'll probably get pipe bombs in the mail for Xmas for saying this but if I was Hobie I'd think about ditching the 16 for an F-16 rotomolded. Kinda the "wannabe" but more affordable.


No pipebombs, but why would you want to ditich the largest and most successful class of catamarans in the entire world?

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divimon2000
PostPosted: Thu Dec 10, 2009 9:47 am 
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Quote:
No pipebombs, but why would you want to ditich the largest and most successful class of catamarans in the entire world?
Thanks, just throw'n it out there. Business reasons only. Sales perspective only. I have a feeling the newer cats have margins and unit sales all over the 16s. Support (don't ditch) the 16's but move on to what mass market would buy. Move up in "affordable" technology . I dunno. I come from the non-racing side (more mass market) and what would get me excited is a low barrier to entry F 16- that in my mind I know could race but I probably won't. It's about image and perceiving to be cool like the big boys. Then if I do get hooked or have a decent fleet here, move up. It's why BMW made the 3 series.

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Sail Revolution
PostPosted: Thu Dec 10, 2009 10:16 am 
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divimon2000 wrote:
Sales perspective only. I have a feeling the newer cats have margins and unit sales all over the 16s...


Simply put, they don't. Not even close. Look 180 degrees from that statement and you'll see something closer to correct. Of course it is slightly regional, but in general...

divimon2000 wrote:
Move up in "affordable" technology . I dunno. I come from the non-racing side (more mass market) and what would get me excited is a low barrier to entry F 16- that in my mind I know could race but I probably won't. It's why


I don't know what 'affordable technology' you're referring to. Could you be more specific? And to get this out of the way, you could NEVER make a rotomolded F-16 with the current technology. No way, no how. It's a high tech boat, that's that. That's what you get.

There is no such thing as a low barrier entry F-16. As soon as you figure out how to make one inexpensively and competitive, you've got your first investor right here! :D I've been on all sides of boat designing and building and it's not a cheap game.

Fast, reliable, cheap. You can only pick 2.

j
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srm
PostPosted: Thu Dec 10, 2009 10:20 am 
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Karl Brogger wrote:
Matt Miller- You should really write an article for the Hotline that goes through the proccess for getting a boat like the Wave to production.


I thought it was simply a matter of going down to the beach and scratching out a design in the sand, building the first one, then convincing your buddies to work in your factory and sell the product to all their buds...you mean the process has changed over the past 40 years? :D

Actually it would be quite an interesting read. When the 17 first came out, the Hotline did a full article on the design and testing process that was really well done.

sm
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Sail Revolution
PostPosted: Thu Dec 10, 2009 10:21 am 
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divimon2000 wrote:
Quote:
It's why BMW made the 3 series.


Hobie 3 series:

Image

Image

Image


:D
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centralmichigansailor
PostPosted: Thu Dec 10, 2009 10:42 am 
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Joined: Fri Jul 06, 2007 9:13 am
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Location: Shepherd, Michigan
MBounds wrote:
...Most of those guys sail F18s (I used to have one - talk about a money hole!). They weren't laughing so much when I told them it cost less than 20% of what they had "invested" in their rides.

Different strokes for different folks.



Matt, did you sell your Tiger?
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