Fox Spinnaker Dousing/Snuffing issues

We need help figuring out how to douse/snuff our spinnaker.

We purchased a Hobie Fox about a year ago and simply have been having a blast. The spinnaker had a few holes near the tack and we recently had the sail repaired. We decided to step the mast and try out the spinnaker on dry land. The spi setup is the “end of the pole w/ sock” rig (as seen here: http://www.mariner-sails.com/cust_files/Hobie/snuffers.html). We rigged the halyard through the 2 dousing holes in the sail, through the sock, through a few blocks, up the mast, through spi halyard block, and then to the head of the spinnaker.

We can hoist the sail with relative ease. It is extremely difficult to douse the sail. It simply is hard to get it to go into the sock. We tried to douse several ways: little to no tension on the sail head, moderate tension on the sail head, no tension on the spi sheet, using the spi sheet to keep the clew centered, tension on the spi sheet to keep the clew near one side of the boat, and many combinations of the above. I think that if we were sailing, the sail would likely fall into the water and perhaps go under a hull. After several attempts, we noticed that there were new holes in the sail near the tack… hmmm maybe the sail/sock friction caused the original holes.

Anyone have any tips?

Thanks

Do you have the skunk head in the picture or the down turned carbon hoop? Are you threading the retrieval line thru the holes or do you have a ring system? Are you dropping the kite with it sheeted or allowing it to fly up in front before you attempt to snuff? I sailed a Fox for a couple of years and the kite is a beast on that baby. Mine had a tendancy to bunch up when entering the skunk head and could be a PITA to get snuffed. By adding a ring at the first bail point instead of threading the line it snuffs easier and has less bunching. The ring must be small enough to not let the second bail point pull into it. Another trick is to tie a knot in the retrieval line right behind the first bail so the two points don't bunch together, this is tricky because if the knot isn't in the right place the spin will not completely snuff. With more info I may be able to help more.

I sail my Tiger with an endpole system very similar to yours.

It can also be a piece of cake if done right. This kind of system does not like to come down while the boat is going downwind. It will go in best as the boat is rounding to weather as if you are rounding a leeward mark. Another trick is to make sure that both dousing points on the spinnaker do not come into the sock at once. If you have three points on your spinnaker then this is even more important. Make sure you add a stopper ball so you can separate the points on the sail as it is making it's way into the snuffer. I think that a distance from your wrist to shoulder is enough. You can play with this by putting a stopper on then pulling it in the bag. If the head and the clew both bury into the bag you can lengthen that separation. If the head or clew are sticking out of the hoop you need to make it shorter. You do not want the lines to rub against the snuffer the head and the clew should be right at the edge but comfortably not in the wind. I do use a ring that is tied to the grommet rather than going through the grommet.

There are races out of Mission bay that I am sure the I20s would allow you to participate if you have not already found that Yacht Club. If you are not a heavyweight to need a bigger boat try sailing a Formula 18 and see if you like that. We are always racing somewhere. If you would be interested in one you can contact me.

Later,
Dan

ncmbm - We have the skunk head (we fondly refer to it as our toilet bowl). We do not have a ring system - the retrieval lines go through the holes. We tried dropping the chute sheeted and unsheeted (we had issues with both methods). You are absolutely correct, the sail bunches up when entering the skunk head - there are new small tears that look like friction burns.

Dan - since we were testing the spinnaker on land - we were dousing the sail downwind... sounds like that was part of our problem. Both dousing points on the spinnaker were coming into the sock nearly at once. We'll have to fix that. We were also pulling the entire spinnaker, except for the head, into the bag. Guess we'll have to fix that too.

We are considering creating a bridle for the retrieval line (splicing the line to create a Y) to minimize bunching. Have either of you tried that? The knotting, ball, and ring solutions all sound as if they would make a significant difference. Do you think a ring with a stopper ball (or knot) would better address the bunching issue than a bridle? I appreciate you taking the time to share your expertise.

RE: racing - at this point we're enjoying figuring out how to sail our Fox well. We have sailed her in Mission Bay, San Diego Bay, and out of Oceanside. We'll have to check into the MB club at some point.

Thank you both for your advice,
Sue

The Fox chute is really large and most likely should have been designed with three dousing points. I sail with a mid-pole snuffer currently and am having trouble remembering how I fixed the issue on the Fox. Mine was constantly burning small holes in it, especially where the line drags. Dan is correct on dousing a F18 kite but the Fox is much larger, more like the I20. Are you guys spraying the chute down with Sail-kote? I found that spraying the chute, hoop and inside of the bag helped with friction drag. I really think the Fox will like the chute out in front to snuff properly, downwind.
What year Fox do you have and where did it come from? I wonder if it could be my old boat, '01 model if I remember correctly.
If I remember correctly the distance from the head to the first point is the same as the distance between the first and second and second and foot. If a stopper is put in place the chute will not snuff completely, so disregard my knot idea. I still think a ring on the lower point will help as the sail will not bunch up nearly as much. My skunk head was triangular shaped and bent down, looked like a praying mantis head sticking out. I really enjoyed the boat, very responsive. The Fox, however, is not a beach boat and doesn't fair well if the keels get worn down. Keep it on wheels at all times. Do not let it drag across the sand, rocks, etc. I would also suggest that you never run the boat with the daggers slammed. Keep the daggers sticking up out of the deck 6" or so at all times, except downwind when they can be pulled. I learned the hard way that the boards can and will break if loaded up while fully extended in the water. If you keep them up they are braced by the inner bracing of the hull, look in the port and you will understand. The Fox is one sexy boat!!

Making a bridle you are trying to separate the dousing points I suspect. If you make them the same length you will still be getting both point to the snuffer at the same time. Also when you get to the end of the snuff you will have that bridle coming trough the trampoline where you pull for the douse. I have not tried it though.

Making a knot with a stopper ball about 18 inches from the top dousing point and before it goes down through the second dousing point may work fine.

A friend of mine made a large sail for the boat which equaled the size of the I-20 and was easily as fast in most conditions.

Dan

I have the same setup.

I do not run the halyard/retrieval line all the way to the spinnaker head. My retrieval line stops at the second attachement point 2/3 up the spinnaker. This gives you less "bunching" of the spinnaker prior to entering the snuffer.

Thanks for the additional advice and ideas.

We’re going to spray Sail-kote all over the kite and skunk head, tie a knot somewhere around halfway between the two dousing points (patches), and give the set up a work out on the water where we can learn in the wet whether a poor douse results in running over the darn thing. (If it can be done, we’ll do it.)

BTW, we bought the boat from the second owner (Redondo Beach), who reported that he bought it from a couple guys who raced it in 02 thinking that the Fox would be a big hit in SoCal…and it got crushed by the Inter 20. It’s an ’01, hull/sail number: 051. If you see us on Mission Bay or S.D. Bay, you’ll know us immediately as the hackers who haven’t figured out how to make the boat really get up and move. But we’re trying.

Again, thanks for all the help and great ideas. See you on the water.