She's going over!!!

I hit a milestone in my Hobie sailing career, two or three actually.

1) I flew a hull
2) I capsized the boat
3) and I turtled the boat

The story:
10-15 mph winds. I (160lbs) went out with a friend (180lbs) and our two boys (70 & 50lbs respectively) on my Hobie 18 (and my wife, but in a totally different story she opted to not talk to me the rest of the day and stay on shore). I let my friend handle the tiller so he could have a little fun and had him turn off the wind a couple times to avoid scaring the little ones. We did not have harnesses so no trapping was ensuing. We were on a medium reach (I think, wind was shifting) when a gust came.

Port Hull (upwind) started coming up, I unleashed the jib and he turned into the wind (he did NOT get the main sheet uncleated) and splash down. Maybe 2 seconds from oh crap to lets swim. My friend and boy went right in (all had life jackets and had been told the procedure before we set off), I dropped in in about 2 or 3 seconds (making sure they were clear) and then yelled for my boy to get off the hull. Which he did... into the main sail.

By the time I got the righting line untied and started climbing on the floating hull the boat started slipping under. i frantically climbed on the hull but it was too late... turtled. I'm proud to report we had the plugs in and were not near any bridges.

At this point I need to point out that everyone on Oklahoma lakes are apparently VERY helpful. No fewer than 3 boats and 3 jetskis offered to help (we accepted a ride for our boys while we got it upright).

We ended up using a jetski towrope to get from turtle and then a third man to get us back out of the water. To return to shore in defeat as our allotted sailing time had expired.

The Questions

1) I believe I was told/read to turn into the wind to stop the boat from going over. However, a turn to port inherently puts upward pressure on the inside (port) hull, encouraging it to come out of the water. Is uncleating and turning into the wind what I am supposed to do here?

2) Righting procedure:
Just to make sure I have this right.
a) Righting line tied to dolphin striker
b) Boat goes over... climb onto the float hull
c) Throw the righting line OVER the top/skyward hull.
d) pull, dont get squished.

3) Turtle - it seemed to go turtle pretty fast. I'd say 30 seconds. Was the downward push of my boy the cause (fell onto it, then JUMPED off of it) or is there something wrong with the mast? It seems that when we got it up from turtle we did not have any problem with it trying to go back under, but I cannot be sure as it is kind of a blur.

4) Shallow Water
I thought we were in 60' of water, but upon trailering and lowering the mast there was a dab of mud on the top of it . So I assume it barely hit bottom at some point (which could explain the difficulty in righting it). What happens if you turtle in 15' of water or near shore in less? I could see serious strain on the mast, anything special to right it at that point to avoid putting pressure on it or no big deal? 40' water is not the norm in Oklahoma unless you really get out there.
- - -

Thanks in advance. I'm learning so this is bound to happen more and more. My friends son was apparently traumatized and has vowed motor-only boating... proud to say my son said it was scary "but was really just mostly swimming." He was much more confident than I that the entire thing wouldn't sink, we ended up with maybe 10 gallons in the water side hull...which I will look into since it usually doesnt (hasnt) take on water.

- Jesse

ps. only mild battle wounds and only for me. Apparently I caught a cable with my back that left a mark and I discovered you use muscles you didnt know you had when trying to right those things. Boat and all else is well.

[edit]
It is a 1992 Hobie 18. It has a comp tip. No idea really if the mast leaks (I'd guess it does) or if the water running out of it was really off the sails/groove or whatever. I'm a nub, working on it.
[/edit]

_________________
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Proud new owner of a 1991 Hobie 18.

like me I forgot to tell my better half - yes hobie's tip over .....oops
She has gotten over it and now enjoys flying the hull.

as far as getting the boat back over - here is the hobie way

RIGHTING YOUR HOBIE

On that reach...flying through the air and water then...WHAM!!! Your Hobie Cat has forced you to swim instead of sail. Not really what you had in mind? if you have planned ahead you will be up and sailing again quickly. Whether sailing singlehanded or with a few friends, righting your boat can be quick and easy. First, preventing your mast from becoming one with the bottom, or �turtling� is a priority. We at Hobie have designed mast floats to help keep your Hobie Cat from becoming a �mudhen�. The floats attach to the top of your mast and will prevent the mast tip from sinking. The next objective will be to get back to sailing! Righting systems vary a bit but the theory is the same. A line is attached to your Hobie, thrown over the hull in the air and then weight (yours and or your friends) is used to lever the boat back to an upright and sailable position. After you have checked that everyone is OK, turn your hulls and mast into the wind (see diagram)



and uncleat your sails. You and your friend now need to congregate on the hull that is in the water. Grab the righting line, lean away from the trampoline and get as close to the water as you can. Try to stay out of the water. If you don�t have enough body weight to right the cat we have the Righting Bucket! Just attach it to the boat with the hook that is provided, throw over the upper hull and fill the bucket with water! With the bucket strap over your shoulder, lean your weight out from the boat. The bag comes clear of the water and up the cat will come!! Grab the dolphin striker or crossbar as it comes up, climb aboard, sheet in and GO! Tipping your Hobie over can be a great way to cooloff and enjoy the water...try it! It�s excellent practice for when you weren�t planning to go for a swim but your Hobie decided that you needed to cool off!

_________________
Gordon & Kathy
Nacra 5.5sl - "Blue Bayou"
Macgregor 22 - "Tranquility"

Hey big props for that jetskier that helped you!


I flipped my 16 a couple of times. Learned the hard way that updating a non-comp tip mast with a newer style masthead=leaky mast that fills with water. It turtled really fast and there was no way I was getting it up without the use of a boat or jetski.

I was on the ocean, and the wind and waves pushed me into shore until the mast kept banging along the coral bottom. Now that was a gut wrenching sound.... Ripped off the masthead and bent the mast so I ended up replacing it with a comp tip one and adding a Hobie bob. Now I have an 18 so I need to get one for that just incase history repeats itself.

Another time I flipped it I lost a porthole cover so make sure those are good and tight before you go out. With water in the hull it just kept rolling over every time I got it up until we gave up.

I was shown by a guy in Bora Bora how to right a getaway from a turtle. He uncleated the main and jib then threw the rope over and then walked slowly along the hull bond line from aft to fore until it slowly came up on the side. Then he basically repeated that maneuver on the hull side itself with my help. It seemed like it wasn't going to come up then all of a sudden over she went.

Not really looking to try that one on my own again!

1: Turning into the wind only really helps if you are turning into the wind. On a reach you have a long ways to go before being head to wind. Sheeting is about the only thing you can do to prevent a capsize. I call it the angle of death.

2: Get off of the hull that is out of the water pronto. If I'm understanding you correctly this is probably why it went turtle so quick. Bail off the back side or slide down to the mast and then onto the hull that is in the water.

3. If your mast is leaking use silicone around all of the joints in the masthead, tang, and comptip to help seal it up.

4. Just part of lake sailing. Wait till you get the joy of sticking the masthead a few feet into the mud and having to wash your sails when your back home. Plus the mud that rains down on your boat once you get it righted.

I don't have any advice to give that hasn't been given but if you sail in Oklahom what lake?

and you should come down to Norman, we are slowly building a small group of cat sailors in the area.

_________________
Nacra 5.2 "Elsies"
Hobie 14T, "Blazin" I guess I am keeping her!

All the water in the hull seems to indicate that your port hole cover may be leaking.

We just took a comp tip of a friends 16 - he was having turtling problems -
No water in the mast but the comptip was full and had no way to drain - took it off and sealed it up - no problems after so far.

_________________
Gordon & Kathy
Nacra 5.5sl - "Blue Bayou"
Macgregor 22 - "Tranquility"

Thanks so far for all the advice.

I'm glad to hear that some mast banging on the bottom is par for the course, I figure it had to be. Without ocean swells it doesnt seem like there should be much strain on it really. At least that's what I hope.

Also, my mast does not seem to be retaining any water. At least I did not notice that it seemed heavier while trailering and I imagine it would, or sloshy. I will certainly have to look into resealing it though, or putting a float on it perhaps. From capsize it was easy, from turtle it was ridiculous.

and yes, I would believe that the porthole cover is leaking, there are several surface cracks on the ring. Not an issue really when upright, different story when upside down. I'll put that on my growing list of things to look at/repair/worry about while sailing.

I primarily sail on lake Keystone from Keystone State park. The lake has plenty of open water AND several beaches you can sail to (key to break up the day when with a 7 year old). It is also closest to the wind corridor that graces North-North Eastern Oklahoma. There can be a bit too much boat traffic/jet skis making waves to make waves - but most seem very kind and understanding to the right of way issues with the sail boat. the Hobie Fleet around Tulsa is very active, but I will try to get down to OKC for a weekend sometime. Let me know when you are having events (if the grapevine doesnt tell me) and I may be able to show off my lack of skill.

Keep 'em coming. I'd rather learn from YOUR mistakes.

- Jesse

ps. Hobie Bob you say?

_________________
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Proud new owner of a 1991 Hobie 18.

Hobie Bob's are those floats that go on the masthead. Everyone thinks it's a sonar.....LOL

If I seal up my comp tip is there a reason to spend a couple hundred dollars on one of those?

Or better yet, is there a suitable alternative? It seems a bit nuts to spend so much money on a floating chunk of plastic.

_________________
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Proud new owner of a 1991 Hobie 18.

No debates please about who is or is not 'wussy' - all our Club H18's have Hobie Bob's. Saves wear and tear in the long run. After a few experiences of trying to get the mast out of the mud, this is the way to go. Gives our 'newbies' a great sense of confidence, and our Harbour Master less cardiac arrests.

Other alternatives include tieing an empty windshield washer plastic bottle to the head of the main as you raise the sail. A real 'student special.'

Or, take two swim noodles, (okay Henry, one red one, one green one,) slit them down one side and place the hole in the middle over the shrouds, secure them with tie-wraps or line. Duct tape won't last. The noodles should be able to slide up and down the shrouds.

Then attach a bungee cord from the head of the main, one side to port, one to starboard, and the lower ends are secured to the top of each noodle. Loop a key ring or a piece of wire inside a double or triple tie wrap as the 'securing point'. So, as the main is raised, the noodles rise up the shrouds to the top of the shrouds. Yes, you have to adjust the bungee to get it right.

Sleek, slim, and cost effective, and much better looking than some junky plastic bottle. Anyone else have options? CO2 cylinder attached to a plastic tube which runs up the mast and inflates a balloon? Naaah! I'll stick with my Hobie Bob thanks.

_________________
2015 H16, with spin,
SOLD 1989 Hobie SX18 Sail # 1947 "In Theory..."
'Only two things are infinite, the universe, and human stupidity. But I'm not sure about the former.'

Nope, it works just like kids; we can tell you all the stories, but until you make the mistake yourself, it just doesn't stick!

Everyone asks me what that white thing is on top of my mast, now I have an answer I can have some fun with!
About the Bob, I put one on our boat and glad of it. If we ocean sailed I might not think it as important BUT our part of the bay is mostly black mud bottom, much of where we sail is below 30 foot. I would hate the idea of getting the mast stuck in the mud then go on sailing while that mud rains down on us.

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1981 H16.
1993 Macgregor 26S

The first time I heard some guy tell his wife or g/f soooo matter-of-factly that it was a sonar I about fell over laughing. Then other people kept asking if that is what it was. Where exactly do they think I hide the electronics? LOL

Yeah I shouldn't have let my other one go with my H16. I have a bad habit of flipping my Hobies....